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From:
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 77A dtd 31 March 2000
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:43:13 EST


THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 77A
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(issued biweekly by
March 31, 2000



This second section of the 3 section newsletter contains Notice of a New
Homepage Section and Parts of Northern Slovenia Added to BB Research Area.

"FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS" ADDED TO HOME PAGE

Member Jill Johnson has been instrumental in initiating this new home page
section. New members frequently ask the same questions and older members
often require some reminders. Jill put together a list of such questions
which were enlarged and reviewed by some of the BB staff. Effective
immediately, the following can be found on the Homepage by clicking on the
appropriate hyperlink. Jill has our thanks for her efforts on our behalf.
It's always rewarding when a new member suggests and becomes reponsible for a
new task.

BURGENLAND BUNCH -- FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

* Can I contact other members?

Absolutely - this is the primary purpose of the Burgenland Bunch! Send an
email to the address shown on the member list of the Homepage or in any
newsletter. Include BB or Burgenland Bunch in the Subject Heading of your
email and be courteous. A response; however, is strictly up to the contact.
Most members report that BB members are happy to share information and ideas
directly with each other. Members frequently report that they got important
questions answered by other members and/or that they found a new cousin they
did not know about before. We now have many situations where multiple members
are researching in the same villages. This enhances the opportunities for
members to share resources, knowledge and research tips.


* Is there a charge to be a member?

There is no cost or obligation to be a part of the BB. You help us by sharing
your data and by linking with other BB members.


* How do I join (or quit)?

To join, just follow the instructions found on the Homepage or email the BB
editor: . To quit, or "unsubscribe", see the first part of
any newsletter.


* How is the Burgenland Bunch organized?

The BB is an informal, volunteer organization. Gerry Berghold handles
membership and co-ordination and edits the newsletter. Hap Anderson runs the
Homepage. Albert Schuch handles Austrian contacts and research. Anna Kresh
edits the URL list. There are also other editors (see the staff list) who
handle other specific areas. The Homepage provides links to other useful
websites including the WorldGenWeb for queries, and to Roots-L for newsletter
distribution and archives. We also have links to member web sites, other
genealogy websites, the Austrian newspaper OZ (Oberwart Zeitung), and the
Burgenlandische Gemeinschaft. The Burgenlandische Gemeinschaft is the
premier organization of Burgenland immigrants and their descendants
throughout the world. They are headquartered in Güssing, located in southern
Burgenland and issue a bi-monthly newspaper (in German). Membership costs
$15/year. To join see our archives.


* How is the Homepage organized and how do I get to each section?

There are 8 parts to our Homepage. Just click on the hyperlinks (blue areas)
to go directly to each area. These areas include Introduction, Member List,
Village List, Family Name List (temporarily frozen), URL List, Albert's
Village List, Archives, and Frequently Asked Questions.


* How do I find the parish for a specific Burgenland village?

Search "Albert's Village Data" on the BB Homepage. You will find that this is
a wonderful resource for your research!


* I joined last week-why is my data not listed?

Depending on volume, it can take up to a month to enter new data. Remember,
we are all volunteers and we do the best we can. We are a rapidly growing
organization and sometimes it is hard for our volunteers to keep up. One
thing you can do to make it easier for us to input your data is to make sure
you sent it in the proper format and that you put BB in the subject heading
of your email when you send it.

Example: John Doe, ; Toledo, OH. SCHMIDT, Güssing.
NEUBAUER, Eltendorf. Settled in Allentown, PA. (data in this example is
fictitious).


* What do I do if I wish to change my data?

Just contact the BB editor with your data changes. Be sure to label the
subject heading of your email with a "BB" so our editor can find it easily
and include your name.


* Why is my data correct on one list and not on another?

We do the best we can, but with multiple people updating lists, errors or
omissions can sometimes occur. We sometimes lose a volunteer and it becomes
necessary to delay or freeze a list (Family surname list for instance is now
frozen-as of 01/15/99). If you notice a discrepancy, please contact the BB
editor with the corrected information.


* How can I find answers to my questions?

Many questions can be answered by searching the BB Archives. One of the best
sources are the BB indexes which are published periodically. Check out BB
Newsletters issues # 49A & B, for the latest comprehensive index of all
topics covered in our newsletters. There is another index at the Rootsweb
Archives site. You can also post a query on the WorldGenWeb-Burgenland Query
Board and other genealogy websites. These addresses can be found on our URL
list. If you still have questions, contact anyone on our staff.


* How can I reach the Homepage, WorldGenWeb Query Board or Roots-L Archives?

Go to the internet address shown on your Welcome Letter or look at the 3rd
section of any newsletter in the part called "Burgenland Bunch Staff". You
can also hyperlink from the Homepage.


* How do I become a BB volunteer?

Contact the editor and tell him what you would like to do. We welcome the
involvement of our members! We need a wide variety of talent to make this
organization work smoothly. You can volunteer for one-time only projects or
for an on-going responsibility.


* Who can help with downloading problems?

Check the URL list first to make sure you have the right address. If that
does not work, then contact any member of our staff.


* Can I get help translating some documents?

First of all, check the BB Archives to see if we have already translated a
similar document. We have translated quite a few. A good resource for free
translating assistance are the on-line "computer translator" sites mentioned
in our URL list. While they are not always accurate, they do offer an
inexpensive method for getting a rough translation. Some of them are very
good. You can also try using a good German-Hungarian-Serbo Croatian or Latin
dictionary. We do have a few members who are willing to occasionally assist
others in translating short documents, but they expect you to do some work
on your own first. We may also be able assist you in finding a professional
translator to translate your documents for a fee.


* I wrote to the Burgermeister/parish of my village but they did not answer
me. Why?

Inability to read English may be the problem, but today, everyone who doesn't
read English knows somebody who can translate. So these institutions are
either overworked (many priests nowadays have to serve two parishes instead
of one) or they are simply not interested. You can write again, but this time
consider including a small donation for the parish and two or three
International Reply Coupons (available at your local post office) to cover
their postage cost. Also, be sure to check to see if there is already a
microfilm of these church records. You may be able to obtain the information
yourself at an LDS Family History Center.


* What happens if I change or cancel my email address and don't advise the
BB?

You will automatically be dropped if 3 email transmissions are returned as
undeliverable. Reinstatement may then require resubmitting data and may take
a few weeks.


* Who do I contact if I have a suggestion or would like to submit an article
for publication?

Contact any member of the staff with your suggestions. Send your article
directly to the BB editor.



NORTHERN SLOVENIA ADDED TO BB RESEARCH AREA
[Edited 09 Oct 2007]

Triggered by a new member's email, I had occasion to look at my 1:100 000
scale Haupka map of "Steirmark, Graz and Südl. Burgenland"-number 12 in
their Auto-Wander-und Freizeitkarte series covering all of Austria. Don't ask
me where you can get one of these, I bought mine in a Morawa store in Styria
some years ago. I rarely use it because it is too detailed and only covers
the southern part of Burgenland (which I thought I knew like the back of my
hand). I normally use Strassenkarte Burgenland 1:200 000 available for $3
>from the Austrian Tourst Bureau in NYC which shows all of the Burgenland in
good detail.

All along I've considered Slovenia (the former Empire Province of
Carniola-later part of Yugoslavia and now an independent country) to lay on
the other side of Styria (south of Radkersburg) and Carinthia (which it does)
and as such not within the immediate borders of the Burgenland. This
disqualified it, in my mind, from being part of our research area, following
my philosophy of micro-genealogy which requires limiting our research area to
Burgenland proper and immediate border villages. I am now very embarrassed!

What did I find on the map but a 12 kilometer section of Slovenia which does
border the Burgenland from the villages of Kalch to Tauka (district of
Jennersdorf) with a customs crossing at Bonnisdorf. This area (jutting
between Hungary and Styria) is very rural. It's wooded and hilly and the only
reason to go there would be to take Route 58 to go from St. Martin,
Burgenland to St. Anna, Styria. At each end of this common border, there is a
map reference to "Dreiländerecke" or "corner where three countries come
together" (Austria, Hungary and Slovenia). My only excuse for not noticing
this earlier was that on most maps the heavy color denoting national borders
covers the "corner"! My wife then reminds me that we saw a reference to a
Dreiländerecke memorial marker on a slow afternoon ride to Radkersburg. I
must have thought it referred to Styria, Burgenland and Hungary.

Anyway, to our list of villages falling within our research area must now be
added those Slovenian ones which are about 24 kms north west of Murska
Sobata (Olsnitz), Slovenia. They are Ocinje, Serdica, Sotina, Kuzma,
Matjasevci, Trdkova and Martinje. A second tier would include Nuskova, Gorni
Slaveci, Dolic, Boreca, Vidonci, Grad, Dolnji Slaveci, and Jurij. The major
stream is the Ledava, which is formed by the junction of the Limbach and
Klausenbach from the Burgenland.

Following are excerpts from correspondence with new member Diana, who has
my thanks for suggesting this change:

In a message dated 3/12/00 8:25:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, Diana writes:

<< I am very interested in joining your "bunch". it sounds just like what
my family are looking for. Actually, I received your site from one of my
cousins who is now part of the "bunch". We are both researching our family
tree. I had visited Burgenland, Hungary and Slovenia a few years ago with my
father, uncles and my grandfather. My grandfather grew up there and we stilll
have some family there. The area is beautiful and rich with history... >>.

Diana (); San Diego, CA. Original spelling
of name as found in Slovenia is: SZUKICS. Names researching in the
Burgenland: SZUKICS, SUKITSCH, SUKITCH, SUKIC, Szentgothard, Ronok,
Felzoszolnok Hungary; St.Martin ad Raab, Jennersdorf, Neumarkt ad Raab,
Austria; Martinjie, Slovenia.


Berghold answers, We'd like to point out that we are not researching
Slovenia, so you'll find little in our archives concerning it. Likewise,
Riegersburg is in Styria some distance west of Jennersdorf. Are you telling
us you have linked families in all of these areas or have you just found the
family name there? The name is not uncommon in this region and is definitely
Slavish. I've seen it spelled "its" which is a Croatian ending (son or child
of.) I'm not sure if it is Croatian or Slovene. Some Croats migrated west to
Slovenia (aka Carniola, Slavonia) during the early period (1500's) of the
Turkish wars.

The Hungarian border villages next to the Burgenland are within our area.
Your "Roenig, Hungary" (no such place) is probably Ronok (Felso- and Also-;
German names were Ober and Unter Radling). Your Hungarian villages are all in
Vas Megye (county), the Burgenland ones in the district of Jennersdorf. Do
you have a proven family link between Slovenia- Vas Megye- and the
Burgenland? Please elaborate if you do. You also do not mention where your
immigrant ancestors settled in the US.


Frank Teklits writes: Diana, I noted with interest your search for your Szukits
ancestry. I thought that you may like to know that while in the process of digitizing
the old church records (1681 to 1796) from my dad's village in Szentpeterfa,
Hungary, I have seen the Szukits family names recorded in both births & marriages.
And I may add, with many spelling variations such as Schuchits, Chuchits, among
others.

There was at least one Szuchics family living in my home town of Northampton,
PA, while I still resided there, & to the best of my knowledge there are many
Szukics names in the phone directory of Allentown, PA.


Diana replies to Berghold: You asked me to elaborate on a few
things...First, yes, I do have a proven family-link between Jennersdorf-Vas
Megye, and Slovenia. I realize you are not researching Slovenia, but we do
indeed have a proven link between the 3. This is my understanding:

My grandfather's family originated in what is today known as Martinji,
Slovenia (near Trdkova and Kuzma bordering Austria). At the time, however, I
believe this land was all part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. And you were
correct with Ronok (not Roenig as I stated), this is where my
great-grandmother's (Schultz) family is from. All of the villages are very
close. After the war (WWI), when the empire collapsed and the borders were
set for Slovenia (Yugoslavia), Austria and Hungary, my grandfather's family
became separated by the borders. He told us the stories of (later) trying to
send packages to Hungary and Slovenia from the US during the 40's and 50's
and never really knowing if family had received them or not. He said that
when the borders went up, family communication became very difficult or
stopped. This is why we are only today discovering first cousins of my
grandfather's in the Slovenia and Hungary areas. I know this sounds
confusing, but let me give you a bit of our history:

My Great-grandparent's emigrated to Pittsburgh, PA from Martinji (Slovenia)
in the late 1800's (I am assuming, it's not positively known when they came).
My grandfather and his sister were both born in Pittsburgh in the early
1900's. However, one of my grandfather's grandparents were going blind back
in the old country, and so his parents made the trip back to the old country
so the grandparents could see their grandchildren. Well, this was right
around the time of WWI breaking out and my great-grandfather was still not a
US citizen and still listed in the army reserve list for the Austrian army
and he was drafted into the army while they were visiting. My grandfather
had grandparents in both Martinji and Ronok. His sister died and was buried
in Ronok at St.Emmerich church. She died young of Scarlet Fever. By the time
the war had ended my greatgrandparents decided to settle in the old country
with their family and they had another son. My greatgrandparents settled
their family in a little village bordering Hungary and Slovenia in what is
today St.Martin ad Raab, Burgenland Austria. My greatgrandparents died and
are buried at the village church cemetery in St.Martin (near Jennersdorf).
My grandfather's brother who was a citizen there, also married and raised his
2 children there who are still living in St.Martin and running a gasthaus
that had been in the family for years. My grandfather, being a US citizen,
had to return to the US by age 21 or he'd lose his citizenship. So he
returned aound the year 1927 or 28 by himself. He met up with a few of his
cousins in Pittsburgh who had been there for a few years also. Hence, this
is the family link to those 3 areas you mentioned. Sorry if this email
rambled on. We have a proven family link in the following areas:
Pittsburgh,PA; Erie,PA; Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada; Vancouver, BC, Canada;
somewhere in South America.


Berghold replies:
Yes, if you look at a map, you'll see that most of the Slovenian border is
next to the part of Styria which juts between Burgenland and Slovenia. It's
about 15 miles from Maribor to Heiligenkreuz (Jennersdorf) as the crow flies,
more by road. Slovenia was Carniola, one of the A/H provinces. It's this
piece of Styria (and the region of Szt. Gotthard, Hungary, which isolates
Slovenia from Burgenland. (I was wrong in this statement).

Pre 1918, it was a much shorter distance, since one could cut across Hungary
in the direction of Szt. Gotthard (maybe you still can) without too much
trouble and obviously that is how your family came to be spread northward (or
maybe southward). Even in pre 1918 there were customs points between the
three areas. Very interesting since I knew of no other similar family
distribution like yours.

(Then the light went on)
Hello again. Diana, one other thing. I've been all over Burgenland in every
direction, but I'm sorry to say that I missed the fact that there is a piece
of southern Burgenland that shares a border with Slovenia. It's the border
between Bonisdorf and Tauka-just about 12 kms. Easy to see on a 1:100 000
scale map. It is very hard to see on the normal 1:200 000 scale map that I
generally use. In fact there are two places shown called Dreilandecke (corner
of 3 countries) at both ends. Locals could cross on the farm lanes and evade
the customs station at Bonisdorf. You can't do that today if you're from the
USA.

What this all means is that I must include those Slovenian border villages
(including yours a little further SE) in the area the BB is researching. They
are all small like Ocinje, Serdica, Sotina, Kuzma, Matjasevci and Trdkova. I
must plan to drive around there on my next visit.

I have some Bergholds from Muhlgraben (Burgenland) which is not far west of
Bonisdorf. Possible that some migrated east to Slovenia (Carniola).

Many thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll be doing an article on
this later. If you have anything further to add, please do so. For instance
did your grandparents speak German or Slovenian or Hungarian? Were they
Catholics? Have you used the LDS church record microfilm? What was the name
of the Slovenian county in which your villages are located? Were they
Slovenians or Croatians? Gerry Berghold, BB.

Diana responds:

I am so glad I could be of help to you and hopefully it will also be helpful
to other BB members. I guess I always took it for granted that people
realized that the 3 countries' borders met because that is all I heard in
stories my grandfather would tell.

I have told you pretty much of how my family is connected to all 3 countries
via villages within mere miles of each other and how one war could separate
entire families as such. You really must drive through this part of Slovenia
on your next trip. It is mostly farmland, and you are correct that it is
VERY underpopulated, but also very rich in history. I look forward to you
doing an article on this in the future and I would love to help you in any
way. This is one topic I can never say enough about....

And if you do drive through this area of Slovenia, please stop in Trdkova
(very near Kuzma) at a Bistro near the cemetery. It is a bistro owned by my
grandfather's first cousin's son and is called BISTRO SUKIC. You can't miss
it as it is one of the only Bistro's and is on to of a hill by the cemetery
where there are many SZUKICS. Mention to them that I sent you there.

Anyway, the village in Slovenia where my family is from is MARTINJI,
SLOVENIA. Today I believe TRDKOVA took it's place (no-separate village on
map). My great-great Grandparents home is still standing there (less than a
mile from the bistro). And because of the laws in the area which are unlike
the USA, the home and property still belong to our family even though the
home has been abandoned for some time now. We went to this house when we
visited and it was AWESOME. To think that I was walking in the same home as
my great-great-grandparents...it still makes me feel awestruck!!!! This was
the home my grandfather and his parents returned to prior to the start of WWI
when they returned to the old country. The nearest towns today are KUZMA
and TRDKOVA. Actually, one other bit of trivia and info is that my cousin
in TRDKOVA, her name is Sergeja Sukic, a young girl in her teens, is a
singer of folk music.

The church my grandfather attended was in what is today Felsoszolnok (3 kms
north across the border in Hungary). It is a catholic church. We visited
there also, but the priest said that all church records from that era had
been destroyed during the wars (ED. Note: LDS microfilm records available
>from 1789-1895 as nos. 0601492-494). This is very unfortunate because it
could be a great link for us. One day, I will tell you of the goings on
there when the Russian's tried to take over and push communism in the early
part of 1900's. I also recognize the name BONISDORF from when we were going
>from St.Martin to Martinji, Slovenia. I am not sure of the church name in
Felso, but I believe it is the only catholic church there. My grandfather
also has a first cousin and his wife that have a farm near the church in
Felso.

So to the next subject.....my family is catholic. The language spoken is a
tricky one...and is also associated with how my name came to be spelled as it
is today (for my side of the family). Because my grandfather had
grandparents in Hungary and in Slovenia and where he lived in Austria was
becoming "GERMANIZED"...my grandfather had to know ALL 3 languages. However,
the DIALECT spoken in the region of these villages bordering all 3 countries
was WENDISCH! Hence, as my gradparents always told us, their "nationality"
and ours is WENDISCH. There is even a little village in Austria near the
border called WENDISCH-MINIHOF. So in short, the language mostly spoken in
Martinji was WENDISCH. Here in the states, I know there is a group called
the FRATERNAL ORDER OF WENDISCH or something similar. My grandfather belongs
to this group based out of Bethlehem PA and there is also a group in
Pittsburgh, PA like this. I have much more information, but I guess it will
have to wait...

There is actually more interesting stories regarding our family history
(someday I'd really like to write all of the background into a book). My
grandfather's wife was a HORVATH (HORVAT in Slovenian and Hungarian). Her
father, Emmerich Horvath, and her mother, Carolina Csuk, both came from the
same village in what is now Felsoszolnok, Hungary. This is also the same
general area where my grandfather's parents, SZUKICS'S were from. So from
my paternal side, both of my dad's parent's are 100% WENDISCH. (Ed. Note.
See newsletter no. 34 for history of Wends).

My Great-grandmother, Tereza Schultz, was from Ronok, Hungary and attended
St.Emmerich's church. My Great-grandfather, Ferdinand Szukics, was from what
is now Martinji, Slovenia post-WWI, my Great-grandfather, his wife and 2 boys
(my grandfather) moved to the village of what is now St.Martin ad Raab, Austria
where we still have cousins and aunts today. There is a catholic church in the village
of Felsoszolnok that my grandfather and his family attended.
 
When we went to visit a few years ago, our cousins took us to a place where
the 3 borders of Hungary, Slovenia and Austria meet. There is a small area
of NEUTRAL land where a triangular monument stands. It is in the middle of a
wooded area and very nice. Anyway, there are 3 paths leading from the
monument: One path leads through the woods to each of the 3 countries.
This is also the wooded area my grandfather and his relatives used to walk.
(end of article.)

(Newsletter continues as no. 77B)


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