Archives of the Burgenland Bunch Newsletters
© 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 "The Burgenland Bunch"

Click for the Burgenland Bunch The Burgenland Bunch Genealogy Group

Genealogists researching the multi-ethnic heritage of the Burgenland of Austria and adjoining areas of former West Hungary.

From: GBerghold@aol.com
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 117 dtd April 30, 2003
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:45:18 EDT

THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 117 
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(Issued monthly by Gberghold@AOL.com)
April 30, 2003
(c) 2003 G. J. Berghold-all rights reserved)


RECIPIENTS PLEASE READ: You are receiving this email because you are a BB 
member or have asked to be added to our distribution list.  If you wish to 
discontinue these newsletters, email Gberghold@AOL.com with message "remove". 
("Cancel" will cancel membership, homepage listings and mail.) Send address 
and listing changes to the same place. Sign your email with your full name 
and include BB in the subject line. Send no attachments or graphics unless 
well known to me.  Please keep changes to a minimum. To join the BB, see our 
homepage. We can't help with non-Burgenland family history. Appropriate 
comments and articles are appreciated. Our staff and web site addresses are 
listed at the end of newsletter section "C". Introductions, notes and 
articles without a by-line are written by the editor and reflect his views. 
Please exchange data in a courteous and cooperative manner-not to do so 
defeats the purpose of our organization. 


This first section of our 4-section newsletter includes the following:

1. Safe To Drive In Hungary?
2. Family Information Concerning Batthyany Beatification
3. A Welcome Email To Our 1000th Member
4. More Information Concerning Batthyany Beatification
5. Burgenland Today-Vas (Moson-Sopron) Yesterday-Castriferrei Earlier?
6. Cantus Felix Sings At Batthyany Beatification

1. SAFE TO DRIVE IN HUNGARY? (courtesy  Margaret Kaiser)
  From *** Newsroom at: http://hungaria.org/ ***

NOTORIOUS CAR THIEVES CAUGHT

Police have caught three Polish members of a gang that stole more than 70 
cars in Hungary in the past two and a half years, mostly from foreigners in 
Budapest and its surroundings, as well as on the M1 motorway between Budapest 
and Gyor.

The gang would often pose as policemen, or bump into other cars, thus causing 
the drivers to stop before stealing their cars. They shot a woman who was 
protecting her child in the face with a gas pistol, shot a man's finger off 
and beat another half dead. National Police commander László Salgó told 
reporters Tuesday that it was a matter of reputation for the police to 
capture the gang.

Some 90% of the victims were foreigners, mostly well-to-do businessmen or 
diplomats. Victims spread the word that gangs of uniformed men were robbing  
well-to-do travelers in Hungary, and that "it is not safe to stop for one 
minute on Hungarian motorways."

(ED. Note: Having driven twice in Hungary in the border regions, albeit not 
near Budapest, I did not encounter any problems. I took the same precautions 
I take when driving in the US. Auto rental agencies: however,  have been 
charging an extra premium to drive their cars in Hungary because of car theft 
in metropolitan areas. The above is good news.)


2. FAMILY INFORMATION CONCERNING BATTHYANY BEATIFICATION (from Ladislaus E. 
Batthyány,  BatthyanyL@aol.com)

With interest I noted that you too mentioned (BB News No. 116C) the 
beatification of our great grand father, Prince Batthyány-Strattmann in Rome. 
Just for clarification, I want to point out that this was a unique 
beatification for one main reason: Batthyány-Strattmann is/was of course 
buried in our family crypt in Güssing. However, he is also considered a 
"Hungarian Saint", so the beatification was done by TWO dioceses, Eisenstadt 
and also Sombathely (Steinamanger). After all, Kittsee was Hungarian when he 
lived and Körmend (where my father, one of the 27 grand children of the 
blessed, still lived till WW2) is in Hungary. So also for the whole 
organization of the beatification it was a big challenge which worked out wel
l, that two countries, two bishops, were involved.

For the beatification, the Batthyány Family came as well, all together over 
150 members. My father presented the relics to the Holy Father at the 
ceremony. From Hungary as well, the Hungarian State President attended and 
from Austria the governor of Burgenland. Also Archduke Otto von Hapsburg and 
his family attended.

The ceremony was also broadcast on TV in Hungary and Austria. The ceremony on 
Sunday the 30th in the Franciscan Church in Güssing, where the remains of my 
great grand father were carried into a new shrine by members of the family, 
at a holy mass with Bishop Iby of Eisenstadt, was very moving!

I also want to mention that Güssing (the castle, and family burial place 
under the church (the largest in Austria, after the Hapsburgs) is still 
managed by the family Batthyány. This is done via a foundation between the 
family and the government of Burgenland.

Kindest Regards, Ladislaus E. Batthyány, Vienna, Austria

PS: Further information can also be found under:
www.katolikus.hu


3. A WELCOME EMAIL TO OUR 1000TH MEMBER (Jim Weinzatl to John Vitopil)

Welcome John and Congratulations upon becoming our 1,000th Burgenland Bunch 
member.  I joined very early I think I was like #10 or #12.
 
My father's side all came from Pamhagen.  My Grandfather John Weinzetl was 
born there in 1879 and came to America at age 10 in 1889 and they also came 
through Galveston Texas.  

The story in our family was that a cotton farmer in Texas paid for their 
passage in exchange for working for him for a number of years.  However they 
stole away one night soon after arrival and went to West Bend Iowa to join 
other family and friends from Pamhagen.  According to census records.  My 
grandfather's older brother & sister had come to America a year earlier in 
1888 and settled in West Bend Iowa.  
I was excited to see that another Pamhagen family had come through Galveston. 
 I have tried to find ship passenger lists for years, but unfortunately they 
were destroyed in a fire.  

I recently found a Weinzetl (they changed the spelling somewhat to Weinzel) 
family in Galveston and traced them back to Pamhagen also.  So we now know 
the story has some validity.
 
I have several Leier's also spelled Leierer and Leyer and other ways in my 
family database.  See if any of these connect to your family:
 
Weinzetl-
 
George Leier b. 1795 d. 17 Feb 1873 Pamhagen
m. about 1830 to Magolina ?
             Children:  Joseph Leier b. 1839 Pamhagen
                                  d. ?
                                  m.  Aloysia Weinzetl 30 Jan 1871.  b. 14 
Dec 1851 Pamhagen  d. 17 Feb 1907 Pamhagen
                                        
                                       Children:  Maria b. 23 Aug 1873 d. 3 
Sep 1873
                                                      Julianna b. 18 Jun 1875 
 d. 3 Sep 1881
                                                      Jacob    b.  1 Jun 1877 
  d. ?
                                                      Rosalia  b.  30 Aug 
1879 d. ?
                                                      Maria    b.  13 Jan 
1882  m. Nikolus Thueringer 1903 Pamhagen d. ?  
                                                      Joseph  b. 19 Jan 1884 
d. 10 Aug 1884 Pamhagen
                                                      Joannes b.  24 Jun 1885 
d. ?
                                                      Anna      b.  26 Jul 
1887 d.  11 Jun 1889 Pamhagen
                                                      Theresia b  6 Mar 1890 
d.  ?
                                                       Rosa     b.  18 Jul 
1891   d. ?
                                                      George   b. 7 Feb 1896 
d. ? 
 
 Kierien - Lorenz Keirien married Katalin Leier b. 1818 in Pamhagen on 7 Feb 
1847.
 
 
Lentsch- Vincent Leier married Magdalina Lentsch about 1845 and had one 
child:  Stephen b. 1848 in Pamhagen. Stephen married Maria Mueller 20 Oct 
1874 in Pamhagen.

Tschida- Stephen Leier married Catherina Tschida in Pamhagen 22 April 1885 

I have copied nearly all of the Pamhagen church records from 1826-1895.  I 
will check to see if I can find your family and get back to you. Again 
welcome and hope to hear from you soon.
Jim Weinzatl, Tomah, WI 


4. MORE INFORMATION CONCERNING BATTHYANY BEATIFICATION (from Bob Strauch)

 The beatification of Ladislaus Batthyany has been a very important event in 
Burgenland, especially for Güssing, it appears. Busses of pilgrims are 
arriving from Hungary.
 
I received mail from Güssing late last week: a commemorative envelope of the 
beatification, inside was a prayer pamphlet with Ladislaus Batthyany's 
biography, a prayer, and quotations, along with a postcard of Batthyany with 
the following message: 
 
"Einen herzlichen Segensgruss von unserem seligen Augenarzt Dr. Ladislaus 
Batthyany sendet Dir und dem lieben Hianzn-Chor Euer dankbarer Pater Leopold 
Prizelitz" (a heartfelt greeting from our blessed eye doctor to you and the 
dear Hianzn-Chor sent by your thankful, Father Leopold Prizelitz).
 
The Diocese of Eisenstadt has extensively expanded their website devoted to 
him: 
www.kath-kirche-eisenstadt.at/batthyany/termine/03-03-31-translatio.html
 
Go to the above for a photo of his new monument/shrine in the Franciscan 
church in Güssing. 
 
Click "Dr. Ladislaus Batthyany" (top left), then "Bilder der Seligsprechung" 
for photos of the ceremony in Rome. You will see some familiar faces (besides 
the Pope, I mean).
 
Click on "Der Lebensweg" (top center) for several pages of historic and 
contemporary photos.
 
Click "Termine" (top right) for a listing of upcoming and past events. 
 

5. BURGENLAND TODAY-VAS (MOSON-SOPRON) YESTERDAY-CASTRIFERREI EARLIER

(ED. Note: Geography and History are not subjects dear to the hearts of many. 
Nonetheless, to understand family history, one must deal with  the past which 
comprises history and location which comprises geography. When considering an 
ancient  microcosm like the Burgenland, it can become confusing. Following is 
an exchange between member Joe Jarfas and your editor concerning the names 
under which the Burgenland region has been known. Joe was born and raised in 
Hungary and I'm sure his remarks reflect the views of the local population. 
Often, however such views differ from the "official" view, i. e. what is 
considered true within the Washington beltway is not always the same as 
without. ) Joe writes:

As usual read with interest your March research summary, which must take an 
enormous amount of your time to prepare. I'm sure we all appreciate the time 
and effort you put into this project.

 What prompted my lines this time was a 'slight' remark of yours in the 2nd 
article of  "EISENBURG - EISENBERG-COUNTY (HUNGARIAN VAS) - ALSO VILLAGE IN 
AUSTRIA & TOWN IN HUNGARY" - to wit: 'The Komitat Eisenburg (County Of 
Eisenburg) -later called Vas Megye (and previously called Komitat 
Castrifieri) ...' - where the 'latter' word implies, to me, that Vas(vár) 
megye was not as such in earlier times, i.e. since circa the year 900 when 
most of Transdanubia was taken and occupied by the Magyars and became part of 
the Kingdom of Hungary. Since the 'plebeian' Hungarians definitely did not 
speak, read and write Latin, and since the name of the county was taken from 
Vasvár which existed since the Roman Empire times (just like Szombathely did, 
under the name of Savaria) the county name in Hungarian definitely was Vasvár 
megye - in the vernacular.

 The fact that during the duration of the Austrian Monarchy the official 
language of the realm became German and most every place had to have its 
German name - beside the local population using their own version of German, 
Slovene, Croat, Slovak, etc. name - does not detract from the 1100 year 
history of Hungarian names, which admittedly changed often and took a special 
law to 'standardize' them in the later part of the 19th century.

So the Burgenland of today, in which our genealogy research - by need - rest
ricts itself to the last few centuries, has been an integral part of the 
Kingdom of Hungary - even during the times of the Austrian Monarchy. Many of 
the noble families and large land holders who 'owned' the land there (sans 
population) did not speak a word of Hungarian, yet none of them would have 
considered that part of Hungary belonging to anywhere else. In this respect 
there is an interesting bit of history from the Memoirs of Friedrich 
Ferdinand Count von Beust, who negotiated the Ausgleich of 1867 (he called it 
Compromise): http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1867beust.html

Keep up the good work Gerry,

Joe, Equinunk, PA - USAjjarfas@ezaccess.net


Reply: Joe-thanks for the kind words. You are probably correct in Vasvar 
being the name in the vernacular. You are also probably aware that the 
"official" or "administrative" language of Hungary for many years was Latin. 
Given the peculiarities of Hungarian, it's understandable. Latin in turn gave 
way to German. My reference to Castriferrei was taken from a series of 
references dating from the 1800's, which seem to indicate that it was the 
name of Vas Megye prior to 1830. 

I quote from the "Topographical Lexicon of the Communities of Hungary 
Compiled Officially in 1773" published by the Delegation Of The Peace Of 
Hungary (Budapestini Etypographia v. Hornyanszky) in 1920. Microfilmed by the 
LDS 13 Mar. 1989 as microfiche no. 6001476. 

This is a listing of all the places in the territory of a given parish (?) or 
district (?) and pages 79-98 under Comitaus (County?) Castriferrei provide 
most of the villages which are in Burgenland today. It gives the following 
titles-Connotatio Locorum populosorum Comitatus Castriferrei In processu 
Domini Zarka, Laki, Hertelendi, Boros. It then provides the village - town 
names in Latin, Hungarian, German, Slavonian (Slavic-Croatian and Slovenian), 
whether Catholic or Protestant, whether a magistrum (municipality or record 
office), and the principal language spoken. I hope I have not confused Church 
administration with governmental administration? 

The Title of the 1828 Hungarian Census for the (Vas Megye) towns in 
Burgenland today is Ungarisches Staatsarchive-Archivum 
Palatinale-Landeskonskription 1828-Hungaria-Comitatus Castriferrei. (It lists 
615 villages). Also microfilmed by the LDS.

The 1873 Hungarian Gazetter lists Megye-Comitat-Vas but shows Vasvar as a 
Jaras-Bezirk (District) with town of Vasvar as district center or town. 

There are some other references which I haven't taken the time to dig out, 
but you can see where I'm coming from. I appreciate your bringing this up as 
it can be quite confusing to those with a limited knowledge of the area. I 
plan to use your email and my reply as an article in the next newsletter. 


6. CANTUS FELIX SINGS AT BATTHYANY BEATIFICATION (from Bob Strauch)

Just got this from Franz Stangl, director of the Cantus Felix vocal ensemble 
that sang here in August of 2001. They performed in Rome last weekend at the 
beatification of Ladislaus Batthyany, and again yesterday at the dedication 
of his new memorial in the Franciscan Cloister Church in Güssing. 80 singers 
from 3 groups (Cantus Felix, Güssing Community Choir, & the choir of the 
Franciscan Church) sang the "Kleine Orgelsolomesse" by Haydn. Check out their 
website (link below) for photos.

http://listen.to/cantus-felix


Newsletter continues as no. 117A.

From: GBerghold@aol.com
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 117A dtd April 30, 2003
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:46:06 EDT

THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 117A
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(Issued monthly by Gberghold@AOL.com)
April 30, 2003
(c) 2003 G. J. Berghold-all rights reserved)


This second section of our 4-section newsletter includes:

1. Splitter From Pittsburgh
2. Some Thoughts About The BB
3. New Hungarian Book
4. German Translation Possibilities
5. Taste Of The Burgenland-Noodles With Cottage Cheese
6. First Immigrants-Mosonszolnok (Zanegg), Hungary
7. Want To Find Some Austrian Products?
8. Note From Gerhard Lang


1. SPLITTER FROM PITTSBURGH -Anna Kresh & Bob Unger
    
In a message dated 12/2/2002, rfunger@cox.net writes:

Anna: I found your button box comments in the November 2002 BB newsletter 
very  interesting. In 1998 when my wife and I took my brother George to 
Burgenland to meet  our new found relatives, we stayed at the Kirchenwirt 
Gasthaus in  Eltendorf, also mentioned in the BB newsletter 112A. There at 
the  Gasthaus we found that the owner's son, Matthias Mirth, was taking  
button box lessons. This sparked George's interest- since he  played the 
accordion many years ago when he was very young - about 50  years ago. That 
sparked an  interest which grew when he returned to his  home in the 
Pittsburgh area. He immediately bought a button box and has been taking 
lessons ever since.

George has also joined a button box group in his area. He  has been a 
long-standing member of the Pittsburgh German Club - the same  group that you 
mentioned. What a small world. Brother George owns an RV business near the 
Pittsburgh airport. Currently he is at a RV convention. When he returns, I 
will tell him of  the Burgenland Button Box groups' interest in touring the 
US, and possibly coming to Pittsburgh (ED. Note: now cancelled). 

Anna replies:  What a neat story!.  I am sure looking forward to  meeting him 
someday. We will be trying to attend the Austrian-American Cultural Society's 
annual Christmas party at the Teutonia on Thurs. 12/12. It is a beautiful 
event - dinner, readings in German and German carol and hymn singing. So 
pretty. Last year they even had a short video from Austria about the writer 
of "Silent Night" - not the one you usually see. This was more about his 
personal life - very good. Is George also a member of the AACS?  They put on 
the Austrian Ball each year. Last year it was at the Carnegie Music Hall; 
this March it is at the Priory. He will know what that is. We would love to 
hear George play. I've always wished I could play the button box. At home on 
the farm, when the Sears, Roebuck catalog arrived, I spent the next couple of 
days on the accordion pages. 

(ED. Note: probably more than any other musical instrument, the button box 
accordion is associated with Burgenland popular music. You will find many 
references to Burgenland ethnic music in our archives. )


2. SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT THE BB (Margaret Kaiser)

I read your email carefully and thoughtfully (editor's comments re membership 
activity and mail).  I venture that many factors are involved.  Here are a 
few of my thoughts. 

Many of the BB members might be seniors unfamiliar with corresponding with 
the BB via Internet, or other ages who are reluctant (shy) to do so, or 
perhaps some are younger 2nd, 3rd and greater generation descendants who want 
to learn about their ancestral land, but cannot contribute due to their own 
paucity of knowledge. In so many cases, the language has been lost, and this 
language loss tends to increase the difficulty.  On the plus side, for many 
of us, we are blessed in knowing our ancestral homeland locations, there is a 
great population of genealogists who cannot cross the pond as they cannot 
identify the area from where there ancestors stem. 

The BB offers specific information for genealogists and for those who are 
also interested in the culture/history of the area.  Otherwise, there is 
little English language material available for our Burgenland area ancestral 
searches.  The BB is unique in that the language is primarily English, and 
the BB is thus available to many who can access a computer, either at home or 
at a senior center, or at a public library.  Thus BB readership might be 
greater than the membership list total (over 1000) indicates.

Perhaps the BB might consider a page where upcoming Burgenlaender activities 
might be listed (those here in the USA and abroad), and perhaps a contact for 
the different organizations.  I am certain that many people do not know where 
to contact such cultural/social groups.  Certainly, in the area where I live, 
there is no coverage of these activities in the newspaper or other media.  
There is but one radio program in the German language which lists activities 
to some extent.  This program is only heard for 2 hours on Saturdays around 
6pm, I think; perhaps not a great time for listening, and if one does not 
speak German, then they would not understand.  There are other reasons why 
people do not participate in club activities; live too far away, no 
transportation, no one to attend with, cost, other conflicting family 
activities, and so on.  Many club activities are dances which may not be 
suitable for some folks.         

You are doing great job.  The BB is invaluable for so many reasons.  The help 
and assistance I have found through its resources are wonderful. Margaret


3. NEW HUNGARIAN BOOK (Joe Jarfas, Margaret Kaiser, Bob Strauch)

(ED. Note: Joe was born and raised in Hungary near today's Burgenland border, 
Margaret is researching villages near the southern border still in Hungary 
and Bob's people originated from Inzenhoff, right next to the Hungarian 
border. As a result, these three keep us posted with regard to matters 
Hungarian affecting the Burgenland region. We can't forget that Burgenland 
was Hungarian pre 1921. In these newsletters I try to cover all Burgenland 
ethnic groups, German, Croatian, Hungarian, Hebrew, Gypsy [Rom] and 
Slovenian)

Joe writes: Hi all, Coming in March:

The Hungarians: A Thousand Years of Victory in Defeat by Paul Lendvai - 
translated by Ann Major

Read all about it - and I highly recommend this to all genealogists - no 
matter what ethnic background:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0691114064/qid=1043206744/sr=1-1

/ref=sr_1_1/104-6934586-6030338?v=glance&s=books#product-details

I read the Hungarian translation and the German original ... and now it will 
be available in English. (I have no connection either to the author or the 
publisher; recommend it only for its historical even-handed-ness and 
realistic depiction of the Magyars.) Equinunk, PA - USA, jjarfas@ezaccess.net

Margaret forwarded the above to Bob Strauch who writes:

Does sound very interesting. Hungarians were fervent patriots. I 've heard it 
said that even though one might have non-Hungarian ethnic roots and mother 
tongue (German, Croatian, Slovenian, etc.), one can still have an 
"ungarisches Herz". I remember Ferdl's cousin Rudi Düh once saying to my 
Slovenian ("Windish") friends from Bethlehem that came to a dance at the 
Lehigh Sängerbund, that the Windish made better Hungarians than the 
Hungarians. He was referring to the Slovenian villages south of Szentgotthard 
and those across in Slovenia that had once been part of Vas County. I also 
notice a strong sense of "Hungarianness" among the local Croatians from the 
villages in the Hungarian part of the Pinka Valley, especially 
Szentpeterfa/Prostrum. That's not to say they neglect their Croatian side. 
They seem to be able to gravitate with ease between both cultures. But their 
ancestors left Croatia 300-400 years ago, so their "political" kinship is 
with Hungary. For our people it's different because of the forced expulsions 
in '46, so some are bitter with the Hungarians. But the Croatians and Windish 
left voluntarily (more or less) during the revolution in '56 and blame the 
Russian and Hungarian Communists specifically, not Hungary as a whole.



4. GERMAN TRANSLATION POSSIBILITIES (from Yvonne Lockwood, 
lockwoo2@pilot.msu.edu)

(ED. Note: I am always reluctant to mention language translation help, as 
requests for such help can become overwhelming. There are those who offer 
this service for a fee (which is generally substantial-and rightly so as much 
work is entailed) and we do not carry ads for such. We do offer help in the 
form of defining archaic terms and even providing "ponies" for help in 
translating birth certificates and the like (see our archives). Below we have 
correspondence from one of our members who received help from a very generous 
source. Feel free to contact this person, however, remember, that the source 
may be overwhelmed and not capable of responding. )

Yvonne writes: I wanted to alert you and any other Burgenlanders about Amorel 
Young. Several months ago she wrote to say that she was a translator who was 
offering her services to the BBunch. I had several texts in German dealing 
with a research subject and contacted her. The long and short of it is that 
she translated my German texts into beautiful, readable, and accurate English 
and did this gratis. She is not charging because she feels she is rusty and 
is practicing; this is misplaced humility. The results of her work is hardly 
rusty. I highly recommend her to our colleagues. Contact Amorel at: 
young@lineone.net

Yvonne R. Lockwood
Curator of Folklife
Michigan Traditional Arts Program
Michigan State University Museum
East Lansing, MI 48824


5. TASTE OF THE BURGENLAND NOODLES WITH COTTAGE CHEESE (Bob Strauch & Anna 
Kresh)

Anna Kresh asks for some recipes, Bob Strauch replies:
Anna, I'm sending you recipes by mail, but in the meantime, I've translated a 
recipe from the Burgenland chapter of the book "Vom Essen auf dem Lande" by 
Franz Maier-Bruck, the absolute bible of Austrian country-, mountain-, and 
regional cooking.
 
"Topfenfleckerln" or "Topfenhaluschka" ("Túrós csusza" in Hungarian)
 
9 oz. noodle patches (Fleckerln)
9 oz. cottage cheese (dry curd or very well-drained)
3.5 oz. bacon, fried until golden
1/2 pint sour cream
salt & pepper
 
Cook noodles in salted water, drain, and rinse with cold water and drain 
well. Grease a fireproof casserole and add a layer of noodles. Top with a 
layer of cottage cheese and season with salt and pepper. Add a layer of sour 
cream. Continue layers until all the ingredients are used up. Finally, top 
with the chopped bacon. Bake in the oven until the top is browned.
 
For Fleckerln, use regular egg noodles and break them into pieces before 
cooking.
 
If using regular cottage cheese, I'd wrap it in a clean kitchen cloth and 
wring as much liquid out as possible. Or use pot cheese or farmer's cheese 
(the curd variety). There's a brand called Friendship that we can get at the 
kosher delis in our local markets. But even that might need to be 
"de-moisturized" a little.  Mahlzeit, Bob
 
(ED. Note: I never cared for these but everyone else just doted on 
them-better than American macaroni and cheese they say. I much preferred 
noodles with ground walnuts and sugar or ground poppy seed with sugar. These 
were more of a dessert. My grandmother always used home-made Fleckerln, 
cutting them into one inch squares. They were more substantial than egg 
noodles. She had a big wooden noodle board to form and cut them.)


6. FIRST IMMIGRRANTS MOSONSZOLNOK (SZOLNOK, ZANEGG), HUNGARY (from Betty 
Mische-bmische@helbing.net)
I have just been re-reading some of my BB news, and came across the First 
Immigrants.....  I know from past experience that there is no one anywhere 
looking for any Presseller's....but, I thought I would share what I found 
from the manifests of my two grandparents who arrived from 
Zanegg/Solnok.....my grandmother (Anna Weisz, 1887) came here at age 13 with 
her grandmother(Elizabeth  Holzapfel Windsperger,1836)....they arrived in 
1901at Ellis Island.    My grandfather (Paul Presseller, 1883) came with his 
family.  Mother, (Theresia Schwab, 1861) Father,(Paul Presseller, 1855) and 
brother (Mathias Presseller).  They arrived at the port of Baltimore in 1902. 
(also from Zanegg/Szolnok)  All of the above settled in St. Paul/Minneapolis, 
Minnesota, in an area that is now called Robbinsdale.  My g.grandfather 
bought a lot from people in Iowa and in the first year of living in MN.and 
built a lovely home.  I always wonder where he found the money to do so!  I 
recall hearing that he had come to the USA for not the best reasons....so , 
of course my imagination runs wild! I heard it when I was young and did not 
bother to ask what the circumstances were!  Thanks for your time. 


7. WANT TO FIND SOME AUSTRIAN PRODUCTS? (courtesy Bob Strauch)

(ED. Note: At the risk of being accused of being a commercial newsletter, I 
bring you these occasional ads and addresses so you may find ethnic products 
not normally available elsewhere. The BB receives no compensation for this 
service, nor does it endorse any product, although if your editor has 
purchased same he will tell you. If anyone orders a Bosendorfer piano, please 
advise. My wife would love one!)

Buy in Austria...By Computer 

Your favorite Austrian products can often be ordered by computer. For 
example, a full line of Julius Meinl coffee, jams and chocolates await you at 
www.meinl.com. Demmers Teehaus offers an amazing range of teas at 
www.demmer.at/en along with an interesting history of tea and brewing tips. 
Bad Ischl's beloved Zauner's Cafe (www.zauner.at) tempts with sweets of all 
descriptions, including its famous Zauner Cake ($20). (Ed.-what no Sacher 
torte?)

The Kunsthistorisches Museum site (www.khm.at) is an art's treasure trove 
including six silk scarves and 74 posters from the museum's paintings, as 
well as exhibit catalogues (the recent Paul Flora show is EUR 20). (Ed. 
-Albert Schuch sent me two great pictures of Emperor Franz Josef and Empress 
Elizabeth from here. They are framed and hanging above my computer along with 
a picture of the Hoffburg in Vienna.)

Or would you like a dirndl for your child at EUR 195 or a classic cape for 
yourself at EUR 327 from Loden Plankl? Go to www.loden-plankl.at. (Ed. -We 
still have  ours bought many years ago.)

Complete with charming music, the Bösendorfer site (www.boesendorfer.com) 
displays its full range of pianos. Also, an astonishing variety of 
merchandise is offered, for example a $51 fleece sweater with the company 
logo. (Ed.-Maybe Bob Strauch plans to trade in his accordion ?)



8. NOTE FROM GERHARD LANG

As  you can see, I fixed my computer problems and I hope it will last for a 
while, before the next problem occurs. I was on holiday last week and used 
the nice weather for taking care of my garden. I dug up and planted 
vegetables (peas, carrots, beans - for "Sterz" and "Strudel", salad and many 
others), I spent almost the entire time out there.

Last Sunday we had our annual Burgenland-contest for wind-orchestras and I 
was there for the whole day, typing the results into a laptop-computer and 
presenting the results to the auditors. I'm proud to report that our 
orchestra (achieved) an "excellent success" with 91.5 of 100 points in grade 
4. After finishing this mail I'll go to Schützen to listen to the 
"Bauernkapelle Schützen"-concert and to honor a member of theirs, who is 
receiving a medal for his many years of musical involvement.
 

Newsletter continues at no. 117B.

From: GBerghold@aol.com
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 117B dtd April 30, 2003
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:46:45 EDT

THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 117B
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(Issued monthly by Gberghold@AOL.com)
April 30, 2003
(c) 2003 G. J. Berghold-all rights reserved)


This third section of our 4-section newsletter includes:

1. American-Hungarian Day
2. Another Spam Query
3. Source Of Name Fangel
4. Hungarian Jewish Genealogy Sources
5. German Translation Help

1. AMERICAN-HUNGARIAN DAY (forwarded by Bob Strauch)

----- Original Message -----From: <MLPecsi@aol.com>To: <
HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com>
 
Just received some news articles from PA regarding the State Legislature 
approving a resolution designating March 15, 2003 as American Hungarian Day. 
March 15, 1848 is the Hungarian Independence Day.

Attending the ceremony was Antonio de Blasio, sec. gen. of the Hungarian 
Assn. of Healthy Cities and Dr. Ferenc Szebenyi, counselor for the public 
affairs section of the Republic of Hungary Embassy in Washington, D.C., came 
to promote a new Pennsylvania-Hungarian tie. That partnership involves 94 
communities in Pennsylvania and 18 in Hungary.

If you are interested in promoting this for your state, I'm sure if you 
contact the following person he may be of help. I don't know that this 
resolution is perpetual; you'll have to inquire. Pennsylvania State 
Representative Marc Gergely (D) White Oak, Pa.


2. ANOTHER SPAM QUERY (from Giles Gurken, reply by Albert Schuch)

(ED. Comment: Again-the BB does not engage in Spam or send email addresses to 
anyone. However, if you are a member and your address is listed in our 
lists-anyone can copy it as Albert says below. The alternative is not to list 
with us and not hear from possible links and contacts. The choice is yours. 
It is not difficult to delete Spam email unread. Add BB to your email to 
members so they know it isn't Spam.)

Giles writes: Re: attached letter. I'm puzzled & startled. Do they get name & 
address from BB group? Or I am wondering if from letter I sent 12 February to 
Dr, Tepperberg-Kriegarchives, asking a question? I stated that if there were 
any charges to advise me of amount & whether credit card might be used in a 
secure manner. I've never received an answer but find it strange that this 
letter states credit card to be used. I think it tells of collecting a fund 
for crippled children & seniors to present some entertainment- Red nosed 
Clown doctors ?? What is your assessment of this?

Albert replies: I copied Gerry Berghold as he may receive inquiries from 
other members. I think we can rule out the possibility that this email has 
been caused by your message to the Kriegsarchiv. They certainly took your 
name from the BB website, as the email is addressed anonymously to "Dear 
Austrian abroad". So it is clearly no individual message to you.

While supporting a good cause (fundraising for the Clown doctors - who are in 
the same "business" as Patch Adams of the Gesundheit! Institute - see 
www.patchadams.org) this is just another form of unsolicited email (SPAM). 
Regards, Albert

----- Original message From: "Evelin Riedl" <evelin.riedl@rotenasen.at>
To: <GGERKEN@webtv.net>
 Subject: LACHEN HILFT
Liebe Auslandsösterreicherin, lieber Auslandsösterreicher, Mit diesem 
Schreiben möchte ich Sie für eine Idee begeistern, die mittlerweile 50.000 
kranken Kindern und zahlreichen Senioren in Spitälern ganz Österreich  
Hoffnung und Lebensfreude bringt.
EINE IDEE, SO EINFACH WIE PROFESSIONELL!

ROTE NASEN Clowndoctors bestehen aus professionell arbeitenden 
Künstlern/Clowns, die kranken und leidenden Menschen Trost, Zuversicht und 
Lebensmotivation geben. Jährlich bekommen kleine Patienten auf 74 
Kinderstationen Besuch von ROTE NASEN Clowndoctors. Das sind rund 1.350 
Spitalseinsätze pro Jahr. Seit 1999 werden auch kranke und pflegebedürftige 
ältere Menschen regelmäßig von Clowndoctors betreut etc.....Spenden Sie 
einfach & bequem mit Kreditkarkte per Internet:
www.rotenasen.at


3. SOURCE OF NAME FANGEL (from Bob Paulson, replies from G. Berghold and 
Fritz Königshofer)

(ED. Note: Anyone preparing a family history should try to include the 
origins of their family names. This; however, may take us into the never 
-never land of conjecture. The origin of some names is obvious, others link 
to possibilities, some defy a logical explanation. We should all try to 
define such origin to the best of our ability, however unless we have 
absolute proof, we should always include with such explanation the 
possibility that it is unproven and possibly in error. Bob Paulson does just 
that in the following -edited.)

I am currently writing the "Family History" and I have speculated about the 
origins of the family name FANGEL.....I will copy a portion of my 
"speculation" below......would you tell me if this has an element of truth to 
it? Thanks, Bob

The Fangels - Unearthing Our Germanic Roots

The earliest documentation for the origins of the Fangel (Fangl) and Sattler 
names has been found in the village of Andau in the year 1856 in what is now 
the province of Burgenland, the western most province of Austria.  The 
Sattler name, which means saddle or harness make, is a common German name and 
can be found throughout German speaking parts of Europe.  The name Fangel or 
Fangl as it is spelt in Andau, however, can only be found in Austria and 
Denmark.  All the Austria sources can be traced back to Andau. .  Fangel is 
also the name of a tiny village about 25 kilometers south of Odense on the 
island of Funene,  the second-largest island of Denmark.  The family name 
Fangel (may have) originated from this village. Exactly what the connection 
is between Austria and Denmark is a matter of conjecture  

How the Fangel name migrated from Denmark can possibly be explained in this 
way. During the first half of the 17th century much of Europe was embroiled 
in the 30 Years War.  Beginning as  a dynastic struggle in Bohemia, the war 
became a religious conflict were no quarter was given, involving Protestant 
nations against Catholic nations, from Sweden to Italy.  At the conclusion of 
the war much of Germany lay in ruins, one-third of its population had 
perished.  South eastern Germany, the historical area of Swabia, was the 
scene of constant warfare between the Italian Catholics and Swedish  
Lutherans.    At the conclusion of hostilities the warring armies were merely 
disbanded leaving soldiers to fend for themselves.  Many, of course, began 
the long journey to their homeland but still others stayed in this part of 
Germany.  In this way it is possible that a Danish soldier from Fangel 
(island) fought in the 30 Years War in south eastern Germany, at its 
conclusion  remained behind to start a new life. No evidence of the Fangel 
name has been found in the area so it is believed that soldier Fangel stayed  
but a relatively short time, not enough to establish a family.

During the last half the 17th century and first half of the 18 century (there 
was) a large migration of people from this same  area of Southeast Germany 
eastward to Central Europe, to the western section of Hungary that had been  
occupied by the Ottoman Turks.  This area of Europe had also been the scene 
of almost constant warfare for over two hundred years between the Ottoman 
Turks and  armies of the Christian countries of Western Europe notably 
Austria.  In 1683 the Turks were finally defeated at the gates of Vienna by a 
combined army of Austrians and Poles. The village located on the invasion 
route had been totally destroyed and their inhabitants killed. This area  of 
Hungary lay in ruins.

In order to repopulate and make this  part of the Austrian Empire productive 
again,  Maria Theresea, the empress of Austria, encouraged peasants from 
throughout Europe to migrate to these lands by offering free land, with 
special priviledges such as freedom from taxation for a period of years, as 
well as freedom from military service and the freedom to bear arms to protect 
the empire. During the ensuing decades, thousands of peasants migrated from 
Swabia to these tracts in East central Europe. Many traveled by boat along 
the Danube, others followed the same route overland. It is in this way  that 
soldier Fangel may have traveled along the Danube to Austro West Hungary 
which later became known  as Burgenland. His final destination may have been  
further east into this southern Hungary or even Romainia along with the 
majority of the Donauswabians.  What may have cut his journey short was the 
fact that the so-called Kuruzzen War  of rebellion was raging in Austro - 
Hungary along the Danube River around the city of Wieselburg about 1704.

The village Andau, the birthplace of the Fangel family is located about 40 
miles southwest of Vienna in the eastern province of Austria, Burgenland.  It 
is about 15 miles east of Neusiedel See and  about 300 yards from the border 
with Hungary.  In the 18th and 19th century when the Fangel family lived in 
Andau, the  village was a part of the Herrshaft of Ungarish Altenburg or the 
domain or landholdings of the Habsburg family, the ruling family of Austria. 
The County seat was Wieselburg. The area was located in the western most part 
of the Kingdom of Hungary  in an area known as Austro-West Hungary. The 
Fangels were Germanic people living there. Thus in the United States   the 
birthplace of the Fangel family would be  listed as  Hungary or, in German, 
Ungarn.

* Reply from G. Berghold-Bob-sure it does-it's possible. While I can't 
validate whether your Fangel was a military or other colonist from Denmark, I 
have read of similar cases-names in the Burgenland of today which have a 
French, Italian, even Irish or English derivation. We know for instance that 
the "combined" army of Montecuccoli, which defeated the Turks at Szt. 
Gotthard ( Mogersdorf in southern Burgenland) was made up of more French, 
Irish and other troops then Hungarian or Austrian ones. Likewise the 
re-colonization of northern Burgenland was made by Swiss and Germans from 
various Germanic states at various times. In 1529 and 1683, Apetlon was 
destroyed so we could have re-colonization both times-also later during the 
Napoleonic Wars-perhaps a better choice for a colonist with name Fangel. 

Relative to the derivation of the name-G. F. Jones (German-American Names) 
doesn't list it-in fact he lists few Austro-Hungarian names (those having 
specific Burgenland endings) probably because they changed from German-to 
Hungarian-to Latinized-back to German, etc. acquiring noun endings and vowel 
changes used in those other languages. He does however list Fanger, Fangman, 
Fangmann which he defines as "catcher"-see German word Fang.  I find no 
Hungarian word which comes close so it is doubtful if it had an Hungarian 
derivation. I'd opt for Germanic as you have done. In Andau today (phone 
book) I find 8 families spelling the name Fangl. 

You may already know that Johann Sattler (b1877-d1941) was twice 
Burgermeister of Andau-1921-22 and 1927-37. His occupation shows as Landwirt.

Hanks & Hodges (A Dictionary Of Surnames) doesn't list Fangel, neither does 
Ernest Thode (closest is Fänger-hunter) but since you have access to 
University Libraries-I'd search for a German Surname Dictionary-I know of 
two, Forstemann-Altdeutschen Namenbuch and Heintze-Cascordi-Die Deutschen 
Familiennamen.

It is always interesting to seek the earliest mention of a family name as 
well as all of the possible derivations-but I'm sure you recognize that in 
the absence of proof positive we are merely citing possibilities. I've added 
such to both of my genealogies. I find your possibilities as good as any 
although I'd be happier if you could prove that Danish Island possibility. 
Denmark is a long way from Andau, as tantalizing as an island of the same 
name is. Wouldn't someone from Fangel be called Fangeler?

My copies of the 17th & early 18th century Canonical Visitations for Andau 
show no inhabitants named Fangel, but I still think your family name 
reference goes back beyond 1856-it would be worthwhile to search for it in 
the period 1718-1856.

Just as an idea, why don't you bounce this name off of Albert Schuch and 
Fritz Königshofer (I've copied them). They might have something to add. 

Even so-I'd again like to publish what you've researched-it may encourage 
some of our other members to do likewise. We do have a member researching 
Fang. You'll find we've published some others in a similar vein. Let me know.

* Fritz writes:  The name sounds quite German to me, though its sense/origin 
is not obvious for me either.  I wonder if it could be an alternative form 
for Stephen (Stefan --> Fandl, perhaps with a possible later change to 
Fangl), or could come from Anfang ("begin") oder Rauchfang ("chimney").  
Otherwise, I would go with Gerry's explanation with the word Fang (for 
catch).
 
 The best would be to find educated bearers of the name in Austria and get 
theories from them about the origin of their name.  This is how I got the 
likely meaning of one of my ancestral names Tibold aka Tivalt (aka Diebold, 
Diewald and other spellings).  One intelligent bearer of the name interpreted 
the meaning as "Dürrwald" (dry wood), but the much better explanation was 
received from another bearer of the name as Thiuwalt, old German for "leader 
of the tribe (or village)," with a French version (Thibaut) and an Italian 
one (Tebaldi).


4. HUNGARIAN JEWISH GENEALOGY SOURCES (forwarded by Margaret Kaiser)

Margaret writes: The attached (extracts) contains interesting information.  
Included is information concerning searching for Jewish ancestors in Hungary, 
etc.

To subscribe to AVOTAYNU, The International Review of Jewish Genealogy, go
to http://www.avotaynu.com/journal.htm.

 Nu? What's New?
 News About Jewish Genealogy from Avotaynu
 Gary Mokotoff, Editor

JewishGen has added an "All-Hungary Database" at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Hungary. 

A list of all JewishGen databases can be viewed at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/. They are categorized into General,
America, Belarus, Czech Republic, Eastern Europe, Germany, Great Britain,
Hungary, Israel, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, South Africa and
Utilities.

Back issues of "Nu? What's New?" are available at
http://www.avotaynu.com/nu.htm.


5. GERMAN TRANSLATION HELP (from Frank Jandrisovits)

In a message dated 4/1/03 FJ1999GO writes:

Congratulations on the 1000th member of the Bunch. A question. I've collected 
a number of documents on the Jandrisovits family -i.e., birth certificates. 
Unfortunately I am not fluent in German. Is there anyone you can recommend 
that could do an English translation of the documents. I would be happy to 
compensate someone.

Reply Frank-it's always difficult to find someone to do this. I'd suggest you 
give it a try yourself. Birth and Baptism certificates are not that 
difficult. Two suggestions: try our Internet Links (URL listings) available 
from the homepage. Click under the title Language Aids-translations etc. 
Secondly review our newsletter archives which explain how to read these 
documents-see nos. 15, 18A, 41A, 47B, 72B. If you get stuck let me know. 

Newsletter continues at no. 117C

From: GBerghold@aol.com
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 117C dtd April 30, 2003
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:47:40 EDT

THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 117C 
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(Issued monthly by Gberghold@AOL.com)
April 30, 2003
(c) 2003 G. J. Berghold-all rights reserved)


This fourth section of our 4-section newsletter includes:

1. Burgenland In Former Days (Part 8, continued from 111)-Gerhard Lang
2. Origin Of Term "Ban"-As In "Ban Of Croatia"


1. BURGENLAND IN FORMER DAYS  (Translated by Gerhard Lang  -Part 8, Continued 
>From Newsletter 111.)

Father Leopold Pritzelitz - Childhood GroÃźhöflein

When water was too cold for swimming, geese and ducks still took a bath in 
the pond. It also was possible to enter the pond with horse and wagon; the 
horses were often driven in for cleaning. A so-called "Toka" (drain) was in 
the pond. There water was drained from time to time and mud and trash 
removed. After cleaning, water was let back in. The creek ran beside the pond 
and therefore runoff and inflow was easy to manage. In that creek, ducks and 
geese made a home, and often nappies and baking dishes were scrubbed. 
Therefore, sometimes it could happen, that napkins and baking dishes were 
scrubbed for over 100 meters up and down the bank. However, people used to 
say: "Wenn das Wasser über 7 Steine flieÃźt, ist es wieder rein." (When water 
runs over seven stones, it will get clean again.) During heavy rainfall, the 
creek sometimes ran over. Then a lot of mud was on the street and in summer, 
we children waded around in it. During the entire summer, we were 
bare-footed. Only on Sundays, for churchgoing did we put on our shoes, but 
after the service we immediately we took them off. When the sun came after 
the rain and dried things, there was a lot of dust in the street.

Every Saturday the street was swept in front of the house. Each dweller had 
to take care of his portion. Before sweeping, the ground was sprinkled with a 
"GieÃźamper" (watering can), so that dust couldn't raise that much. Near the 
houses were pear-trees, which offered welcome refreshment and shade for us.

In those days, a lot of life was in the village's streets. Children played in 
the street, grown-ups went to the well, the pond or creek, went shopping or 
to the fields; cows, oxen and horses were in the street, fowls, ducks and 
geese fluttered, dogs and cats ran around and elder people sat on a bench in 
front of the houses. In the evening the youth was there singing and chatting, 
there was neither radio nor TV, no motorbikes, cars or tractors, only once in 
a while a bicycle. There was dust and mud, but there was life.

On today's asphalt-streets there is no dirt, no dust, no "horse-dumplings" 
and no "cow pats", no cats and dogs, no poultry, no birds, no playing 
children, no cows and horses, scarcely anybody walking, but  in front of 
every house parked cars and rumbling tractors. No life in the street, the 
village looks desolate. My sister always said: "In the evening you can walk 
naked through the village because you don't meet anyone." Once an old lady in 
the village said: "In former days, when the priest walked through the 
village, people could talk with him. Today, when the chaplain drives past on 
his motorbike, people can't talk to him. As soon as you have said: ‚Praise to 
Jesus Christ' (Gelobt Sei Jesus Christus - I hope I found a correct 
translation), he is at the devil!" (The entire German sentence: "Kaum hat man 
gesagt: ‚Gelobt Sei Jesus Christus', ist er schon beim Teufel!") (To be 
continued)

(ED. Note: I always wonder about the few people found outside in the 
villages. I know many work elsewhere (in the fields or in nearby towns, but 
then where are the children and the older people?  We have the same situation 
in America-except in the metropolitan areas. Are we becoming a reclusive 
world?)


*Matthias Artner - During the past century

During the 50'ies, the released workers from agriculture were mostly needed 
in Vienna. During the 60'ies, those needed at-home on the farms started to 
accept jobs or migrate elsewhere. ("Wann i koa Motorradl kriag, geh i nach 
Wean" - If I don't get a motorbike, I will migrate to Vienna). Motorization 
and mechanization started, followed by rationalization. These alterations 
left their marks in agriculture. With the migration of the youth away from 
agriculture and retirement of the elders, the time of the extended families 
ended. Burgenland ceased to be an agricultural country. Now came 
industrialization and a construction boom began, following that which had 
started in the other provinces earlier. Many traditional ways of life and 
values, which would have been worthwhile keeping and cultivating, fell victim 
to this time of catch-up. The rustic aspect of most Burgenland villages was 
destroyed and defaced by distasteful modernization. With that extensive 
construction people wanted to change the poverty of the past. Laborers and 
employees improved their social standing through prosperity, the 
village-elders lost their superior position, and the equalization of social 
levels began. Soon it made no difference if one was teacher, farmer or 
worker. With structural enhancement in the villages - sewers, paved streets, 
and water conduits - the infrastructure in the regions was improved. Centers 
for public administration and secondary schools were built, communities were 
consolidated, fields were drained and rivers regulated.

The Beatles, Pop, clothes-miniskirts, teased hair, birth control pilsl and 
magazines like "Quick", "Stern" and "Revue" established a revolution among 
the youth. Heintje, Udo Jürgens and Peter Alexander (rem.: famous and 
well-known singers) brought a new mood. 

Bruno Kreisky was elected as Federal Chancellor in 1970 and economic reforms, 
that modified - but also shocked - started in many areas. The state took over 
many tasks, which families had previously born. This brought a better 
standard of living to the families, but created more state dependency.

Prosperity needs productivity and a faster pace of life. Men have to 
subordinate to the economy and not the reverse. Not frugality, but throwaway 
stimulates economy, boosts growth and brings prosperity. But this causes 
other problems, which will have to be addressed in the coming years. (To be 
continued)

(ED. Note: I've mentioned how in earlier days, the school teacher, the priest 
(pastor), the "richter" (mayor) and the representative of the Herrschaft were 
the village leaders. They were approached with servility by the rest of the 
population. I once visited a Burgenland village civil office wearing a coat 
and tie and carrying a briefcase. I received prompt attention and help. An 
elderly man wearing a cap, work apron and dusty trousers entered while I was 
conducting my business. He was ignored and then doffed his cap, bowed in our 
direction, pardoned his intrusion and humbly asked a question. Was this a 
trace of the former servility. Some customs die hard, but die they do with 
each succeeding generation, democratization in progress.)


2. ORIGIN OF TERM "BAN" AS IN "BAN OF CROATIA"

* In a message dated 4/7/03, mbusines@banat.ro writes: Please allow 
introducing myself; I am a researcher and I live in Romania/ie Timisoarain a 
region still named BANAT [Some Basic Info on Banat can be found at 
http://www.genealogy.ro/cont/1.html

I would like to comment regarding the meaning of ban/Banat [ie ban as ruler 
of a Banat] . Everything was ok until I reach the etymology problem of these 
words. In THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 96B, May 31, 2001, you make the 
comment: A "Ban" by the way is Slavic for "Duke" or the Latin "Dux". This is 
very interesting for me and I would like to know, if possible, your source 
for this statement?


* Reply: Dear S o r i n  F o r t i u,
My interest in the term "Ban" arose because Franz Batthyany-Ban of Croatia-in 
1524 was granted the Herrschaft of Güssing (now Castle Güssing-Bezirk 
Güssing-Stadt Güssing, Province of Burgenland in the south east of Austria.) 
The Batthyany family held the fief until 1918, but still own Castle Güssing 
and land in the area. The source of this are various histories of the 
Province of Burgenland (parts of Hungarian Vas-Moson-Sopron Megye pre 1921). 
I used the term "Slavic" perhaps in error (I was thinking of Croatian)-from 
what follows below-I believe I should have used the word "Hungarian" or 
Magyar. 

Ban (horvat), as you probably know is a Hungarian word (noun) meaning 
governor/viceroy-my dictionary says (of Croatia). It is also defined as 
warden of the southern marches of Hungary. I have also seen it used to 
describe the political entity ruled by a ban as a "banate." A simple 
hiearchial structure in early Hungary would have been King-Palatine; Vajda; 
Ban; Ispan (administrator of a county or Megye [Comitatus]) . Most of the 
above comes from three books, currently being published in English. They are:

1. "A History of Hungary" edited by Peter F. Sugar, Peter Hanak and Tibor 
Frank. Indiana University Press, 1994. The use of the term "Ban" occurs on 12 
pages of this book. First reference (p19-written by Laszlo Makai-the chapter 
called Foundations of the Hungarian Christian State) says:

"Coloman (successor to Hungarian Kings Ladislaus and Bela) convinced the 
papacy that a Hungarian alliance was worth more than a forced oath of fealty 
and became King of Croatia, Slavonia, and Dalmatia in 1102 with papal 
approval. He appointed viceroys with the title of "Ban" to rule each of these 
lands. 

Banat is mentioned in the above on five pages, mostly in conjunction with the 
so-called Donau-Schwabian migration (repopulation). It is silent as to the 
origin of the word "Banat." It could well be derived from the word "Ban" as 
you seem to indicate.

2. The second book "Southeastern Europe under Ottoman Rule, 1354-1804" by 
Peter Sugar, Volume 5 of "A History of East Central Europe", University of 
Washington Press, 1993. In the appendix, page 343, we find the term "Ban" 
(banus) defined as Hungarian viceroy administering Croatia. English 
definition of viceroy is "governor" of a province who rules as a 
representative of his king. Now in the English Feudal Hiearchy, a viceroy is 
a Duke from the Latin Dux. Since the Hungarian's used Latin almost 
exclusively for their governmental decrees, the Latin term Dux (Duke) is 
often found in their records (see below). This book mentions Banat on three 
pages starting with the 1527 movement of Christians to that area. 

3. The third book is "The Slavs in European History and Civilization" by 
Francis Dvornik. Rutgers University Press, 1962. Pages 136-137 state: "the 
lands of the Croats were regarded not as conquered lands (1102AD-partes 
subiugatae) but as annexed lands (partes adnexae)....the independent status 
of Croatia was respected...As Croat kings, the Hungarian rulers used the 
title "King of Croatia and Dalmatia" (rex Croatiae et Dalmatiae). Croatia was 
administered by a "ban" the supreme officer of the realm, representing the 
king. Sometimes the kings chose to send their sons or younger brothers to 
Croatia as administrators, called dukes (voivoda, dux). The dukes or bans 
used the title Duke or Ban of Slavonia (dux, banus Slavoniae), in order to 
emphasize that their administration extended over the whole Croat kingdom. "

p104-"Ratislav, a Russian prince, who after his expulsion from Galicia by the 
Mongols, received the Banat of Slavonia with Belgrade from the Hungarians."

p357-"The Serbians of the Banat revolted in 1594"

* In a message dated 4/9/03, mbusines@banat.ro replies:
Sure (Ban) is not a Hungarian word! I am a native Hungarian speaker [my 
mother is "pure" Hungarian and my g-mother, which raised me, did not know 
more then 50 words in Romanian even if she lived all her life in Romania]. 
So, I can tell you for sure that BAN [with the meaning of ruler of a region 
named Banat] is not a Hungarian word. 

* Reply: Hungarian Dictionary "Magyar Angol Nagyszotar"-Orszag Laszlo -9th 
Edition-in two volumes-published by Akademiai Kiado-Budapest 1991 shows on 
vol. one, page 139:

ban (with diacritical mark over a and subscript 1) -verb regret, be sorry

ban (with dia. mark over a and subscript 2) -noun, ban {horvat} governor etc.

I can only surmise that if a word is found in the main section of a 
particular language dictionary, it is considered a word of that language and 
not a "foreign" term, although I assume the (horvat) connotes Croatian 
origin.

I am mainly concerned with the Burgenland of Austria and its historical 
background as it pertains to family history. This requires some knowledge of 
the Balkans. My main resource for Balkan history is the ten volume series "A 
History of East Central Europe (volume one is an atlas) by the Univ. of 
Washington Press. Another interesting book of the Carolingian Period is 
"Franks, Moravians, and Magyars (The Struggle For The Middle Danube 788-907) 
by Charles R. Bowlus, 1995, Univ. of Pennsylvania Press. It argues and moves 
the locus of the Moravian Empire south-east from the Czech and Slovak area of 
today to the Austrian-Hungarian border regions centered around Szombathely, 
Hungary. You may be interested to know that we published in our newsletter 
series, an English translation of Dobrovich's book-People on the 
Border-History of the Burgenland Croats. Thanks for your comments.  I am not 
sure if you are familiar with our group, but let me append our Invitation 
Letter which will explain our purpose.

END OF NEWSLETTER

BURGENLAND BUNCH STAFF (USA unless designated otherwise)
Coordinator & Editor Newsletter: Gberghold@AOL.com (Gerald J. Berghold) 
Burgenland Editor:  albert.schuch@gmx.at (Albert Schuch; Austria) 
Home Page Editor:  hapander@spacestar.net (Hap Anderson)
Internet/URL Editor:  ARKRESH@AOL.com (Anna Tanczos Kresh)

Contributing Editors:
Austro/Hungarian Research: fritzkoe@mindspring.com (Fritz Königshofer)
Burgenland Co-Editor & BG liaison: klaus.gerger@usa.net (Klaus Gerger, 
Austria)
Burgenland Lake Corner Research: dkneb@tnics.com (Dale Knebel)
Chicago Burgenland Enclave: tglatz@aol.com (Tom Glatz)
Croatian Burgenland: , fteklits@comcast.net (Frank Teklits)
Home Page village lists, eberau@mail.burgoyne.com, (Bill Rudy)
Home Page surname lists:  steichen@triad.rr.com (Tom Steichen)
Home Page membership list: lagraf1@chello.at, (Hannes Graf, Austria)
Judaic Burgenland: 71431.1612@compuserve.com (Maureen Tighe-Brown)
Lehigh Valley Burgenland Enclave: strauchfam@enter.net (Robert Strauch)
Western US BB Members-Research: rfunger@cox.net (Bob Unger)
WorldGenWeb -Austria, RootsWeb Liason-Burgenland:  cwardell@aon.at (Charles 
Wardell, Austria)

BB ARCHIVES (can be reached via Home Page hyperlinks) or a simple search 
facility (enter date or number of newsletter desired) at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~autbur/bbnlarchx.htm
BURGENLAND HOME PAGE (WEB SITE)
http://www.spacestar.com/users/hapander/burgen.html
http://go.to/burgenland-bunch (also provides access to Burgenländische 
Gemeinschaft web site.)
WORLDGEN WEB BURGENLAND QUERY BOARD
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&;
p=localities.ceeurope.austria.Prov.burgenland

The BB is in contact with the Burgenländische Gemeinschaft, Hauptplatz 7, 
A-7540 Güssing, Burgenland, Austria. Burgenl.gem@bnet.at

Burgenland Bunch Newsletter distributed courtesy of (c) 1999 RootsWeb.com, 
Inc. P.O. Box 6798, Frazier Park, CA 93222-6798 

Newsletter and List Rights Reserved. Permission to Copy Granted; Provide 
Credit and Mention Source.


[ Return to Full Archive List ]

[ Burgenland Bunch Home ]     [ Burgenland Query Board ]     [ Mailing List ]     [ Archive Search ]     [ Top ]