November 5, 2009 Remember to begin reading this transcript from the bottom to the top! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 5:01:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gnight all! FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 5:01:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I just looked at the clock and it's 9pm already! Guess it's time to say goodnight for another week. It's been fun and I'm glad we had a project tonight. Hope we have one next week, too. I'm going to check out now. Goodnight all! FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 5:01:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I don't know why Bart is not in the 1861 census unless birth is wrong....Thanks guys one step at a time. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:59:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: OK it is Roseanna oops FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:59:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Betty, Congrats! Let us know your progress anytime... FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:58:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I was off searching...His name is Joseph and in the dir. he is in them every year. I found Mary living with her parents in the 1870 census before her and Bart got married. FROM: Charles on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:58:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: we have been fairly wet this fall so far, but still a little below normal for year FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:58:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I found Joseph and Sophia Mankis in the 1870 census on Heritage Quest. Rosanna is there and is 18 years old. FROM: Charles on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:57:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: supposed to be windy tomorrow also, but calm down tomorrow night FROM: Charles on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:56:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ok we are supposed to get rain for the next 4 days, not steady, but showers FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:56:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Charles - our rain is already beginning - and the wind is picking up. It's supposed to be stormy tonight and for the next several days. We've needed this rain for a long time but you can keep yours, we don't need any extra. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:55:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Charles, I hear the downspouts singing their songs outside my window. Sounds very happy with our amount just now. FROM: Charles on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:52:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: need any rain?? We have some if you need more FROM: Charles on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:52:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Nancy, Steve, Pat Joy and Betty FROM: Charles on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:51:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nite Jerry FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:50:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Charles! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:48:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gnight Jerry! Thanks for helping. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:47:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Well, I must depart early. See you next week. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:41:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Do you know the father's first name? Maybe someone here can find them in the census for you. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:41:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The mankis lived in ward 23 so I guess I can page by page search. I have done that many times before index's FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:38:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm a PC from the get go also. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:33:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat they spelled the Mankis name the right way everytime I found it. I'm sure everyone new the tavern keeper FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:28:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'll be working on the seminar with Gene Kuechmann Saturday and she's a dedicated Mac fan. I've been a pc person since day one! I did use a Mac at the Post Office for a couple of weeks back in 1989 before I retired. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:27:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I wonder what they did to the Mankis name in the census. Maybe they spelled it correctly! Good luck anyway. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:26:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: We are a mixed household - 1 mac, 1 pc. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:26:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Another surprise on the new MacBook is the way it indexes and searches for my files. I can ask for the silliest entries, and it seems to find them okay, somewhere inside a file with a different name. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:25:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: aah, I think I will lok for the father-in-law FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:25:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Betty - are you a Mac person, too? FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:24:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Love those Mac and PC commercials FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:23:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Betty, Maybe it's easier to use the Digital PA pages because I have this nifty new MacBook, with so much more memory to download and view scanned pages. I'll give my MacBook a star, anyway! FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:22:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, this is the first time I have found them going by so many different names. Given and surnames FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:21:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Well I knew you guys did a lot of PA searching and I looked but did not find so many dir. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:19:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: For Don's great grandma we have Peblo, Webelo and a few other really weird names! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:18:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Betty, I love those Digital PA books, getting easier to locate the pages now, I think. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:18:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I printed them out this time....I wounder if his bio was half truths. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:18:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Betty, if you think the Welsh/Irish accent was hard to decipher, can you imagine how it was with my husband's grandmother when she said her mother's maiden name? Born in Germany and still speaking German at home, and the clerk writing it down had to try to figure out what she said. I've been looking for the right name for her for nearly 20 years with no success. If the transcribers have put a different spelling, including the first letter, in each record. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:16:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Wel, I found him in the 1875 and the 1876-1877 city dir. FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:11:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That last entry should have read (blank) surname and (blank) given name, but the user interface ate the text. FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:10:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Okay, in Heritage Quest I selected 1870, surname, given name, all states, 11-20 years, male, b. Wales, and got 941 hits. Going to page 7, and looking through all the "O" surnames, there is nothing even close. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:05:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oh man its the 1874 dir. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:04:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: O'Brien, Bartholomew, rougher, Larkins ay n Twenty-ninth s s FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 4:01:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: got him I think in 1875 FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:59:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I left the Digital PA page up, and now I see a William (Wm) OBrien is a plumber, too. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:57:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I found a Patrick O'Brien as Plumber in the 1870/71 Pittsburgh City Directory, in Digital PA - no other plumber, no Park, and no Bartholomew or close. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:54:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat you maybe right with a heavy Irish/Welch accent. It could have really rolled FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:53:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Cool nancy I thought there ought to be one FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:52:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: PA's city dir. looked at could not find him listed and of course they didn't have 1870 or anywhere close FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:52:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Digital PA; [1861-1881] Directory of Pittsburgh and Allegheny cities ... 1870/1871 http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/t/text/text-idx?c=pitttextdir;p age=browse;key=author FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:51:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think the census taker could easily have mistaken the name Barth for Park - they kind of sound alike. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:51:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Maybe he was at his soon to be father-in-law or past out. I have been tossing this one around for months. Maybe Joy remembers my asking her to look in Wales census and then we centered on he came to US in 1860 but this was before I found the bio. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:49:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Betty, Unless you can find another clue to that PARK guy -- maybe something about Plumbing in a city directory? I couldn't find another one I liked for any PARK in 1880, either. FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:47:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Betty: The hard one (and without success so far) is finding him in the 1870 census. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:46:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I see you guys have really done some tracking FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:45:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oh boy I goofed again, of course his death is 1905 I had his death cert in my hand when I type that:) Man FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:44:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Betty, We are certainly trying hard to find BARTH in 1870... FROM: jerryt on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:38:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looking at the way that enumerator wrote Park - based on other entries on that page it looks like he wrote Path to me. Probably could not read his own notes and made something up. FROM: Joy on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:34:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Wisconsin Deaths, 1820-1907 about Barth Obrien Name: Barth Obrien Death Date: 5 Dec 1905 County: Milwaukee Volume: 33 Page #: 0189 Reel: 096 Image: 1356 Index Volume: 10 ImageNum: 103883 Sequence #: 282099 Level Info: Wisconsin Vital Records Death Index. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:32:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: In the 1870 census, looks like "PARK" is a lodger, and the person on the line above was b. in Ireland, so there are just quotes for "same" on the next 2 lines. FROM: Joy on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:31:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The 1895 wisconsin census is not very helpful... For Bart it says birthplace unknown... and then it says they won't be home until July 10... LOL. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:27:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It looks like his given name is a real challenge! They didn't do too well with Obrien/Obrion, etc. either. FROM: Joy on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:27:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The 5 year old son in 1880 was born in PA. The 2 year old was born in Wisconsin FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:26:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The spelling permutations seem to be growing. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:25:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy, With accents and all, Park could be BARTH and Wales could be written as Ireland! FROM: Joy on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:25:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1880 United States Federal Census about Barthalimew O'Brion Name: Barthalimew O'Brion Home in 1880: Bay View, Milwaukee, Wisconsin Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853 Birthplace: Wales Relation to Head of Household: Self (Head) Spouse's Name: Rosesan Father's birthplace: Ireland Mother's birthplace: Ireland Neighbors: View others on page Occupation: Works In Rolling Mill Marital Status: Married Race: White Gender: Male Cannot read/write: Blind: Deaf and dumb: Otherwise disabled: Idiotic or insane: View image Household Members: Name Age Barthalimew O'Brion 27 Rosesan O Brion 26 William O Brion 5 John O Brion 2 Frank O Brion 5M J. Mary Mankis 19 Source Citation: Year: 1880; Census Place: Bay View, Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Roll T9_1435; Family History Film: 1255435; Page: 121.1000; Enumeration District: 90; . FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:21:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I filtered on Wales as well. FROM: Joy on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:21:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Source Citation: Year: 1870; Census Place: South Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll M593_1296; Page: 48; Image: 96. FROM: Joy on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:20:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I found a Park Obrien in South Pittsburgh PA in 1870, age 20, plumber, born Ireland FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:18:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I did find a John OBrian in the 2nd Pct. of Birmingham, but he doesn't appear to be the older brother. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:17:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Nancy, Pat Steve and Joy FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:15:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Joy and Jerry, I'm not finding Barth in 1870 in Ancestry either. Must be an interesting spelling! FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:13:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy - that site you posted last week about the voter registration has been really helpful for me at finding a few addresses for our reunion. I decided I wasn't going to keep chasing down the people who never answer but it's kind of nice to know where they are located right now. I found many of them easily. Then there were a few that are either dead or never vote! FROM: Joy on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:10:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello I'll start searching as soon as I finish dinner LOL FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:09:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Joy FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:07:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Checking Heritage Quest in the 1870 census: no Bartholomew _____ or a _____ OBrien in Allegheny County, PA. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:06:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That death date Betty entered for Barth is incorrect. I think it was possibly in 1905. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:05:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Possible same person? WALES 1851 census Name: Bartholomew Obrian Age: 9 Mo Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850 Relation: Son Father's Name: Bartholomew Mother's Name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Llanelly, Carmarthenshire, Wales Civil Parish or Township: Llanelly County/Island: Carmarthenshire Country: Wales Registration district: Llanelly Sub-registration district: Llanelly ED, institution, or vessel: 1h Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 61 Household Members: Name Age Bartholomew Obrian 34 Mary Obrian 36 John Obrian 12 Patrick Obrian 9 Mary Obrian 7 Michael Obrian 4 Bartholomew Obrian 9 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2468; Folio: 330; Page: 14; GSU roll: 104219. FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 3:03:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Stellarium is free open source planetarium software. See http://www.stellarium.org for details. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 2:58:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I see the 1900 census entry: Name: Bartholomew Obrien Home in 1900: Milwaukee Ward 17, Milwaukee, Wisconsin Age: 47 Birth Date: Oct 1852 Birthplace: Wales Race: White Ethnicity: American Gender: Male Immigration Year: 1860 Relationship to Head of House: Head Father's Birthplace: Ireland Mother's Birthplace: Ireland Spouse's Name: Rose Ann Marriage year: 1873 Marital Status: Married Years Married: 27 Residence : Milwaukee City, Milwaukee, Wisconsin Occupation: View on Image Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Bartholomew Obrien 47 Rose Ann Obrien 46 Bert Obrien 16 George Obrien 15 Arthur Obrien 9 Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Milwaukee Ward 17, Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Roll T623_1805; Page: 3A; Enumeration District: 150. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 2:53:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: We don't have any brick wall for next week either. I'll clear out the board and post something like last week - won't be enough time the next couple of days to do much more than that. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 2:52:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi folks, Glad to see Betty has an interesting query. I'll make some notes. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 2:52:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: What is stellarium? FROM: Steve on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 2:46:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: You also need to look the other direction. Try loading stellarium. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 2:44:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gene is going to do some demonstrating of Google Earth so I downloaded the program to both of the computers and was having fun with it today. I was able to see our home; our old home in Felida; our daughter's home in Coulee City and our youngest son's home in the Camp Bonneville area of Vancouver. Amazing at what you can see with it. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 2:43:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I've been working on my netbook and laptop computers, getting them both ready for the seminar. I'll be trying both of them out tomorrow afternoon at the library. It should be interesting switching them around on the projector. It will be another learning experience. FROM: PatB on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 2:40:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I glad someone posted a brick wall. Betty used to live in Bend and is now living in Florida. Hope she will join us this evening. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 23:20:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ok, I screwed up it is Allegany county in PA not Washington. The Washington came from O'brien's that lived there in Buffalo,Washington county, PA.. I just thought perhaps the writer might have just added NY instead of PA, just grabbing at straws. I hope I didn't confuse the issue. FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 22:38:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: If I can stay up long enough tonight I will see you later. Thanks for taking a look at Mr. (Bart,Barth,Bartholomew) (O'brien,Obryan,Obron) or other combinations FROM: Bettybend on DATE-Nov 5, 2009 22:35:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The below bio speaks to the person I am trying to find either in the 1870 census, Wales 1861 census or a Naturalization record or index. I have found him in Milwaukee, WI 1880 and 1900 census. 1900 contradicts his coming to America by stating arrival 1860, which would have meant at 2 years of age. He was naturalized (perhaps in PA) From death cert. Born 30 Oct 1852 Wales Died 12 Dec 1852 His wife's family was found in Pittsburgh, Washington, PA father ran a saloon in 1870 BARTHOLOMEW O'BRIEN Bartholemew O'Brien, roller in the merchant mill department, was born in Wales in 1852; commenced work in a rolling mill when seven years of age, and worked in that vicinity seven years. When forteen years of age, he left home and friends in the old country and came to America to "paddle his own canoe." He first worked in Buffalo, N.Y., about one and a half years, where he had a brother living, then went to Pittsburgh, Pa., in 1867, and worked there till June, 1876; then came to Milwaukee, and has been connected with the Bay View works ever since, except six months in South Chicago. He was married December 25, 1872, in Pittsburgh, to Miss Rosanna Mankis, who was a native of that city, born in 1853. Source: History of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, The Western Historical Company, Chicago; A.T. Andreas Proprietor, 1881, pg. 1634 FROM: Pat on DATE-Oct 31, 2009 17:45:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Just checking to see if this posted correctly. See you Thursday evening! FROM: Nancy & Pat on DATE-Oct 31, 2009 17:44:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy Elder Petersen and Patricia McKee Bauer, along with several regular visitors, will be staffing the GenChat room beginning about 6:45 p.m. Thursday evening. We close the door about 9:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. We have visitors who will give you a willing helping hand with your genealogy brick walls. You can enter questions or answers at any time but we hope you will be able to join us when we are open for discussions. BRICKWALL PROJECT: We don't have any special project for this week. Hope you will join us and post one of your own brickwalls! Please click on the "log-out" button (lower right) before you leave. Meanwhile, you can see our past transcripts with the link below: Past transcripts: www.rootsweb.com/~waccgs/p3424.htm