May 21, 2009 Remember to begin reading this transcript from the bottom to the top! From: jerryt on Thu, 05-21-2009 at 8:59:38 PM Night all From: Steve on Thu, 05-21-2009 at 8:58:56 PM Carolyn: Check the 1920 Census (Series: T625 Roll: 535 Page: 120) for the "step-daughter" Claudia Fleming listed there. From: Joy on Thu, 05-21-2009 at 8:57:19 PM Night Carolyn From: Joy on Thu, 05-21-2009 at 8:57:03 PM Night Nancy From: Carolyn Ellertson on Thu, 05-21-2009 at 8:57:00 PM Well, thank you all so very, VERY much! You can tell how old the posts are, and never have ever had a single response.. night to all, thanks much, see you next week! From: Joy on Thu, 05-21-2009 at 8:56:53 PM I was on the phone with my mom's cousin for 2 1/2 hours working on our family website From: Nancy Elder Petersen on Thu, 05-21-2009 at 8:56:25 PM Gnight all! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:56:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I've been checking with Google and found a bunch of thing also posted by Carolyn. You've been a really busy lady! This will be a good one for folks to work on and post results next Tuesday. Looks like it's about time for me to sign out and grab the transcript and get it posted. Thanks for the mystery Carolyn - it sounds like a fun on. I'm going to say goodnight all - see you next week. FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:55:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Joy FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:55:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Joy, We have Carolyn's interesting story and clues.... FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:55:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Night Joy. Maybe talk next week.. FROM: Joy on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:54:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I came in time to say good night. LOL FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:52:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: As you can see, I have worked long and hard on this one in many places...You guys are good.. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:52:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Esther Crane Olathe KS m/ Claude Moore Fleming Carolyn Ellertson (View posts) Posted: 24 Feb 2004 8:48PM Classification: Query Surnames: Crane, Fleming, Bacchus, Vest Looking for descendants of Esther Crane (last known married name was Story/Storey) who was married to Claude Fleming. They had a daughter Claudie Mae who was born about May 1, 1907. This Claudie Mae was married (1) to Charles Baccus; later years to Harold Vest. I found documentation regarding the marriage license for her marriage to Harold Vest through sources in Kansas City, MO. Claude Fleming was my grandfather, and the mother of my own mother, also named Claudia. The two Claudias were half sisters, who met secretly as teenagers. I would love to connect with Claudie Mae's descendants. I think we have lots to share.. http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.crane/1257/mb.ashx FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:51:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oh, I have presented this in such a confusing way. Claudia #2 is the one who married Harold Vest. The mother of Claudia #2, who would have been my grandfather's first wife, MIGHT have been Esther Crane. Steve: Yes. My grandfather Claude Moore Fleming was born in 1879 (Thorpe Springs, Texas) and died in 1947 in Myrtle Creek, Douglas County, Oregon. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:50:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: And another one: Cozart, Fleming, Hamblin, Moore Posted by: Carolyn Ellertson (ID *****3975) Date: May 11, 2004 at 10:52:43 of 836 My great grandmother, Emma Mary Fleming nee Hamblin (died Texas ca 1885)evidently had (at least)two sisters. According to hand written notes of my deceased mother, one was married to a Cozart of Cabin Creek, AR; the other to a man named Moore with whom she had a son named Harley Moore (also of Cabin Creek).There were evidently other relatives in Russellville and Clarksville, Arkansas. My grandfather was Claude Moore Fleming. I am searching for the descendants of him and his first wife. I found their daughter Claudia Fleming Vest in an old Kansas City, MO city directory, but no further clues. This Claudia Fleming would have been the half sister to my own mother Claudia Fleming. I would love to share information with the descendants of this other Claudia, as she and my mother had an unusual friendship. Any leads will be appreciated. I have seen Annie Cozart listed as one of my grandfather's wives, but my mother's notes are either incorrect, or the listing is. Please help. These Flemings are my brick wall with the exception of Claude's father in Missouri. http://genforum.genealogy.com/cozart/messages/754.html FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:49:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I see another query from Carolyn at http://genforum.genealogy.com/fleming/messages/5768.html William Henry Fleming and Ladora Combs Posted by: Carolyn Ellertson (ID *****3975) Date: October 22, 2008 at 20:58:58 of 5904 William Henry Fleming was born in Ray County, MO in 1845 and died in Collinsville/Tulsa area of Oklahoma in 1924. He was taken back to Missouri to be buried at the Neosho IOOF Cemetery. Ladora Combs was his second wife, he having been widowed by his first wife Mary Emma Hamlin's death (supposedly near Sweetwater, Texas, circa 1885)as a young mother, leaving him with two small boys. William's parents and previous ancestors are my brick wall. Cannot find anything about them. It's like they dropped out of sight. William's father's name could have been Thomas or Samuel/Semuel.Sons of William and Mary Hamlin were my grandfather, Claude Moore Fleming 1879-1943 and John Vincent (Stephen Vincent?) Fleming. The latter son was joint owner of the Riverside Farm Inn near Noel, McDonald County, Missouri about 1910. William had a stroke about 1917,which virtually incapacitated him, and the resort was sold. His second wife Ladora also died in Oklahoma (their daughter's home. Carol Flemming Poole. Used the double "m" in her spelling). She two was taken back to Missouri to be buried, although I did not find her tombstone when I visited the cemetery. I'll appreciate hearing from other possible researchers, as this line has been a tough one. FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:49:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Any idea when Claude was born? FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:46:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Mother of the other Claudia might have been Esther Crane or Crain. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:45:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm not sure, but inclined to think so. No reason with any logic to think that other than that city directory thing. My mother, however, did not.. FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:42:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Did the half sister reside in KC her entire life? FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:42:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy: It would be so great to have it for the family history, but mostly I keep hoping deep inside that there are descendants that do not know of our existance, and might like to know the story of their mother's have sister - also named Claudia.. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:40:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, I agree! Great story. Hope we can find a clue. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:40:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Just to clarify. My mother was very small when she played with the tea set, but never acted on her impulses and curiosity until much later when she was older as continued.Not one would ever tell her anything, so she decided to find out for herself... It's all true. I still have the letters from her that were her response to their father's death, and they are poignant.. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:39:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Wow - you could write a book on that one. Or at least a very interesting short story and submit it to a magazine. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:36:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Are you sure? To be certain, it may take them a while, because I've tried and given up a dozen times. My mother's maiden name was Claudia May Fleming. Parents were Claude Moore Fleming and Frances Kyle. She was born in Kansas City, Missouri on May 11, 1911 and died August 23, 1993. Unbeknownst to her, she had a half sister from her father's previous marriage that was also named Claudia. The way she found out about her was as follows: One day my mother's mother left her with her father while she was gone for several hours. She began to wail her head off at being left behind, which was driving her father nuts(not used to baby sitting..). He promised her if she would stop crying he would give her a surprise. He took her upstairs, and out of a trunk he took a little tea set, which he allowed her to play with most of the afternoon. When he heard my grandmother coming home he quickly took them away and put them back in the trunk, and told her that grandma might be mad if she knew, so maybe she shouldn't say anything. So she never said anything, but later went to the trunk in secret. She found some mail with an address on it and the name of Claudia on it. She couldn't figure it out until she read it (she was about 13 years old, and couldn't resist..). She then wrote to the girl in the letters (who had been writing to their father, mostly in vain..), and had them sent to the P.O. general delivery for the return address. They then exchanged secret letters for probably a year or two, at which time they agreed to meet in Kansas City at the sister's house. My mother told me that when the other Claudia opened the door it was like looking in the mirror. They met several times after that. I can't remember her mother's name (my grandfather's first wife..). Might have been surname of Crane. She married a man named Harold Vest. They are listed in that Kansas City directory. Will get the details for you. Need to dig them out, but the address he found agreed with the one on the letters exchanged between the two in 1947 when my grandfather died. Trust me, she is not a fantasy, but might have either no issue or maybe a daughter. If she and her husband Harold had children, we would be related, and I don't know if they ever knew about us, as we would be related. I had hoped to find her before my mother passed away years ago, but we were unsuccessful. There was a man with the surname of Vest who committed suicide in that area, but I don't think it was him. So we are looking for Claudia Vest nee Fleming/Flemming, and any possible descendants. Even if there are none, I would like to know when and where they died.. I would be grateful. Thanks so much for any light you can throw on the subject. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:22:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn - remember the old saying, "A doctor can bury his mistakes." I guess it's really true sometimes. She was very fortunate. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:20:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, maybe you should go ahead and post the info here now - to keep these folks busy! They can always finish up next week if necessary. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:20:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I would love to. My biggest problem is that I get to concentrating on my animal chores and get distracted till it's too late. I'll put a big reminder sticky note on my monitor. Pat: She got the hip replaced (she'd already had the other one done, and kept telling them it felt the same way as the other one, and they doctored her for everything but that!). It started feeling better almost as soon as it was operated on, although she was scared to death. Doing much better now; walking on it without crutches, and leading a near normal life. It hurts if she overdoes it, but compared to how she was, I'd say 100% improvement.. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:17:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: How is your sister now Carolyn? FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:16:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn - are you going to be able to join us in GenChat next Tuesday evening? We want to entertain the folks at the CCGS General Meeting. Should be fun and we'd like to have a big crowd both at the general meeting and here in GenChat. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:16:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat: Remember when I wanted my sister to go to your accupuncturist, and the terrible pain she was in for almost two years? Well, it turned out she was walking around with a fractured hip, and needed it replaced. It was unbelievable the incompetence by the medical community.. JErry: It is something I want to do in my lifetime, or it will never happen, because no one else remembers the details. I was lucky enough to find her last residence, based on a letter to my mother when their father died in 1947, and confirmed by a city directory in Kansas City by the archivist there, but the trail goes cold after that. FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:11:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That sounds intriguing Carolyn. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:11:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I went to my favorite acupuncturist today to see if he could help get rid of the pain in my left heel. It was still hurting when I left his office and he said it would take 3 or 4 days to get full effect of the "needles." It's better tonight so I guess I'm on the road to recovery. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:09:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oh, that'll be great. It's a good one. Almost sounds like a soap opera mystery, but it's all true.. I'll send you as much as I know. I am trying to locate the descendants of my deceased mother's half sister. The catch is.. she has the same name as my mother.. There's a great story to it. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:09:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: We need three or four good busy ones to use next week. The one I have so far will be done quickly because I'm sure it's something you've done before. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:08:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I sent a note to Carolyn so she can send the brick wall to me. Let's not work on it here tonight. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:08:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, Just write a few notes for us! FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:06:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have a new brick wall for you all. Let me know how to present it. Hi Pat! I just sat down after a hectic day, so this is R&R! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:04:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Carolyn - how's everything with you tonight? FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:04:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good idea Jerry. I guess I should make some notes for next Tuesday evening! FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:03:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi All! What's cookin tonight. I've been scrolling down to catch up. Looks like Pat hit a jackpot, and Nancy too. Well done! FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:02:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks Jerry. I will therefore take a closer look at those deed records. FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:02:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It might also be helpfull if we said how we found the info too, not just the answer to the query. FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:00:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The Norfolk Records Office (http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/nroindex.htm) does not seem to offer BMD index transcriptions on its website. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 3:00:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn! FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:59:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:59:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Now I see Joy posted right away for a query on the Feb. 4th demo: FROM: Joy on DATE-Jan 31, 2009 23:34:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: For the Marriage Query: One of our staff, Miss Betty, wants to ask about Clark County possibly being a "Gretna Green" - a place where folks from out of town could go to be married quickly and with less strict rules re: age, etc. Time period 1895-1910, and people were from Oregon. The marriage certificate for Timothy Corcoran (Son of Timothy Corcoran in the other query) and Margaret C Walker is on the Washington Digital Archives. The Marriage date and the license date are the same day, so apparently in 1898 there was no waiting period in Clark County Washington. 1893 Certificate of Marriage State of Washington, County of Clarke I hereby certify, that on the third day of Nov. in the year of our Lord on thousand eight hundred and ninety eight at Vancouver in the County and State aforesaid, I, the undersigned, a Catholic Priest by authority of a License bearing the date the third of Nov. A.D. 1898 and issued by the County Auditor of Clarke County, did on the 3rd day of Nov. A.D. 1898, join in Lawful Wedlock TIMOTHY CORCORAN of the County of Clatsop State of Oregon and MARGARET C WALKER of the County of Clatsop State of Oregon In the presence of Gillquist Sluth(?) and Mary Denoyer, Witnesses Gelin(?) Verm????? signed: Timothy Corcoran, Groom signed: Margaret C Walker, Bride It would appear that there was no waiting period in Clark County until sometime in the 1960s. I browsed through marriages on the Washington State digital archives and found marriages as late as 1960 where the license was issued the same day as the marriage. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~waccgs/2-4-09.txt FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:59:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Steve - father. The census records Joy found list his father as Robert also. FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:56:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Since Pat's Robert would have only been 11 or 12, could that be his father or perhaps an uncle? FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:56:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: No Pat, just him. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:55:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Didn't we have search results for the previous demo to post? FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:55:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Are there any family members listed with him Jerry? FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:54:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think it is a better demo if everything is live (no postings of pre-arranged search results). FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:53:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There is a Robert Hardy, farmer listed in the 1864 White's History,Gazetteer and Directory in Norfolk. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:53:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It will be a name familiar to several of our GenChatters. Can't say anything here or there won't be anything for next week! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:50:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oops - that's not the installation, that's the election which should only take a few minutes. Installation is in June. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:49:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Tell us about the one, anyway! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:49:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Maybe I can send the queries to you and you folks can work on them ahead of time. How would that be? But don't post the results until just about the time we begin the meeting on Tuesday. It will probably be 7:15 before we begin GenChat Live at the meeting. There will have to be a short installation of the officers first. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:48:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: How shall we handle the queries for next Tuesday? I have only one so far and I think maybe Jerry can handle it pretty well which will surprise the person who sent it to me. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:43:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Interesting overlap of locations for my Henry Kinne of Salem, MASS. WorldConnect for HENRY KINNE of KINGS LYNNE at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=boyd trees&id=I64186 # ID: I64186 # Name: Henry Kinne 1 # Sex: M # Birth: 08 JAN 1622/23 in King's Lynne, Norfolk, England 1 # Reference Number: 64194 # Occupation: See Ref.(r)26 1 # Religion: Church of Salem. 1 # Death: 02 JUN 1710 in Danvers, Essex, Mass. 1 Father: John Kinne (Kinney) b: 1600 in King's Lynn, Norfolk, England Mother: Sarah Cheever b: 1604 in King's Lynn, Norfolk, England Marriage 1 Ann Howard Putnam b: 04 FEB 1628/29 in Greenwich, Kent, England * Married: 03 MAY 1650 in Salem, Mass. 1 FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:42:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Parish Registers for St. Margaret church in King's Lynn extend from 1559 to 1976. Parish Registers for St. Nicholas church in King's Lynn extend from 1562 to 1976. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:40:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'll wait until this certificate arrives and then see what it proves. FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:39:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 12 deed records at the Access 2 Archives website, but no births. FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:37:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: No Pat, that is all the info provided FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:37:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I see two IGI records that also say Norfolk. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:36:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry - does that registration also show the name of the parents? They would definitely have to have a daughter just a bit older than Robert - 2 to 3 years at the most. FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:34:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: "Registration took place at local civil registrars who in turn reported to the Registrar General at the General Register Office (GRO) in London. This database is a searchable, digitized version of the indices of civil registrations in England and Wales, reported quarterly to the General Register Office (GRO) in London." FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:31:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Name: Robert Hardy Year of Registration: 1853 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Kings Lynn County: Norfolk Volume: 4b Page: 345 Pat - I would also consider this person. The dates in the index were reported locally and then to the General Records Office quarterly, so even though this has 1853 as the date, that was when the birth was registered, not the date of birth. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:25:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Reminds me to report a success in Fort Worth Texas library, which has a copy of a book from Illinois. >RE: Elder family research Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:47 PM From:"Apley, Shirley" <Shirley.Apley@fortworthlibrary.org< /A>> To: "nancyelderpetersen@yahoo.com" <nancyelderpetersen@yahoo.com> Dear Nancy, We have completed the search for James Morrow Elder and have photocopied two pages of materials for you. The total cost for research, handling and photocopying is $7.00. We do accept checks/money orders made payable to the Fort Worth Library. Our mailing address is: Shirley Apley, Senior Librarian Genealogy Unit Fort Worth Library 500 West 3rd Street Fort Worth, TX 76102 Upon receipt of payment I will mail you the materials. Thank you for choosing the Fort Worth Library for your research needs. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:22:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I saw the info on the website before I ordered. I've gotten confirmation from them already so hopefully the certificate copy will be on the way soon. This is exciting because no one knows anything about Grandpa Hardy. I remember him when I was a small child. He smoked a pipe constantly and had cancer of the lip/jaw from it. That part I don't remember but I do still have a little antique toothpick holder that he gave me one time when we were visiting there. He died in 1936 in the Orchards area at the home of his youngest son Ralph. FROM: Steve on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:14:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat: I'm on the freebmd.org.uk website now, and cannot seem to get the tool to bring up the correct image for your ancestor. FROM: jerryt on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:06:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Nancy, Pat and Steve. Pat - looks like Joy found you a solid lead. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:06:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looks like Sarah might have gotten bounced out of here! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:05:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening Jerry. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:04:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jerry! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:04:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Congrats, Pat! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:03:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I ordered that birth certificate for my great grandfather. Our family knew nothing of his background except his birth date and England. What fun to add his sister's name, too! And other kin. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:01:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gordon Lockwood's photos of ELDER Land near Indian Run Road, Middle Fork of Holston River, Washington County, Virginia, April 2008. at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/Ho lstonRiver/HolstonRiver.htm FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 2:01:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: WASHINGTON CO VA: The Washington County Surveyors Record 1781-1797 [Now HOLSTON River on map of Sullivan Co TN] at http://www.newrivernotes.com/va/washsurv.htm Page 367 - Robert Elder & James Elder, heirs of Mathew Elder, decd - 349 ac - Commissioners Certificate - beginning on the north side of the middle fork of Holstein River in a line of David Snodgrass's land - by Woods corner - on Graham's line - November 25, 1787...Mathew Elder, assignee of Daniel McCormic - 400 ac - on the middle fork of Holstein, includes improvement of 330 ac surveyed on January 22, 1774 - actual settlement made in 1769 - August 18, 1781 FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:58:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The Rev. War Soldier in their family was in the Battle of Kings Mountain. I have notes: The letter he wrote about the battle follows: Robert Elder, April 2, 1823, certifies: That I was a volunteer of the regiment commanded by Colonel William Campbell, in the action, fought upon King's Mountain, on the seventh day of October, in the year 1780, and do hereby declare, that I never saw Colonel Campbell on the field of battle after the first onset of the action, until the surrender of the enemy. I also declare, that I often saw Colonel Isaac Shelby endeavoring to animate our men, and particularly at the time of the battle when the enemy charged our lines, and drove us down the mountain, from one hundred and fifty to two hundred yards, or upwards. I both saw and heard Colonel Shelby make great exertions to rally our men, which he finally effected, and turned them back upon the enemy, and drove them in their turn until they surrendered. Robert served in his brother Captain James Elder's company under Colonel Roebuck. He and his wife applied for a pension 25 March 1833 in Lincoln County, Kentucky. According to his pension record he was born in York County, Pennsylvania. ***** Library of Congress book entry: Draper, Lyman Copeland, 1815-1891. King's Mountain and its heroes; history of the battle of King's Mountain, October 7th, 1780, and the events which led to it. [Spartanburg, S.C., Reprint Co., 1967] 612 p. illus., map, plan, ports. 22 cm. Title page includes original imprint: Cincinnati, P. G. Thomson, 1881. Subjects: Kings Mountain, Battle of, S.C., 1780. Series: North Carolina heritage series no. 5 LC Classification: F251 .N87 no. 5 Dewey Class No.: 973.33/6 ************ Robert ELDER, b. 1760 d. 1839. Buried McCormack Church Cemetery, Lincoln Co KY List verified with Lincoln Co Historical Society, 10/06. ****** http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/ KingsMountain.htm FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:56:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Those Greensburg Indiana ELDER names trace back to Templemore, County Londonderry, if all the research is correct. Now I'd love to get them traced back to Scotland. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:51:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I love it when an ELDER researcher visits a Church and Cemetery and has new photos! From: ELDER Rootsweb Board http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.elder/1389.3.1/mb.ashx Re: Greensburg In. Elders New sandrafranklin66 (View posts) Posted: 21 May 2009 4:33PM Classification: Query Surnames: Elder Since these post's were posted in 2007 we travled to Greensburg and last Mother's day visited the church Rev. Mathew Elder started.His grave with a beautiful newer headstone given by the church, is just behind the building. I now think Matthew is a brother to my husband's gg grandfather William Marshall Elder, not a great grandfather.My husbands Mother was Doris Elder daughter of Louis Harvey Elder. I have a picture of the church and grave if anyone is interested. Sandy Franklin I wrote: Yes please! FROM: Sarah on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:50:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening all! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:49:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I've been working hard answering queries this week, with promises of more photos from DNA cousins! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:49:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm ordering that birth cert for my great grandfather online now. Be back soon! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:48:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Wow - it looks like Joy has found me a set of great great grandparents in England! I'm sure of the date of his birth - old family written records. It does look like the Robert Hardy of Greenwich would be the right one. No middle name ever for him. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:48:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It's written in big letters on my calendar by my computer. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:47:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looks like we're almost ready for the Chat Demo on the 26th. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:45:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi folks! FROM: Sarah on DATE-May 21, 2009 1:17:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I wanted yto say a huge "Thank you" for the help last week with Mary Loanna Parker. It looks more and more like Heman Parker of Washington township, Clermont county, Ohio was her father, and since he died before 1860, I am going to have FUN locating death records for him, but that's my next step. FROM: billw on DATE-May 21, 2009 13:43:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: This is a test, setting up for the Tuesday general meeting. FROM: Joy on DATE-May 19, 2009 23:09:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I followed him on the UK Census records: 1861 England Census about Robert Hardy Name: Robert Hardy Age: 8 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853 Relation: Son Father's Name: Robert Mother's Name: Caroline Gender: Male Where born: Deptford, Kent, England Civil Parish: Deptford St Paul Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul Town: Deptford County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View Image Registration district: Greenwich Sub-registration district: St Paul Deptford ED, institution, or vessel: 29 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 87 Household Members: Name Age Robert Hardy 33 Middlesex, Hackney Caroline Hardy 36 Kent, Deptford Caroline Hardy 10 Kent, Deptford Robert Hardy 8 Kent, Deptford John Hardy 4 Kent, Deptford Charles Hardy 1 Kent, Deptford There's a sister 2 years older than him... 1871 England Census about Charles Hardy Name: Charles Hardy Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Son Father's Name: George Gender: Male Where born: Deptford, Surrey, England Civil Parish: Rotherhithe Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View Image Registration district: St Olave Southwark Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 130 Household Members: Name Age George Stanbridge 48 Henry Stanbridge 17 Alfred Stanbridge 13 John Stanbridge 11 Emily Stanbridge 9 Frederick Stanbridge 6 Caroline Hardy 47 Caroline Hardy 21 John Hardy 14 Charles Hardy 11 Caroline is listed as a widow here and Robert jr is not with the family. While he could have died, he could just have easily gone to the US by 1871. The 1900 census says Robert arrived in 1870, two other censuses say 1872 or 1873. FROM: Joy on DATE-May 19, 2009 23:06:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: If you're sure of the December 1852 birthdate, The Free BMD index for England lists two Robert Hardy's born in December 1852 Births Dec 1852 (99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HARDY Robert Greenwich 1d 475 HARDY Robert James St Ives 3b 243 http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl With this information you can order birth certificates from the UK: http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ You'll need the information listed above (including book and page number (1d 475). It costs about $10-11 us dollars and can be ordered online. I would start with the Robert born in Greenwich... because... FROM: PatB on DATE-May 15, 2009 18:16:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Robert Hardy has the same slanted eyebrows as the little boy which I thought might be a clue. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 15, 2009 18:15:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's a photo of Robert Hardy - probably about 1906. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 15, 2009 18:15:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's the picture of the two children: FROM: Nancy & Pat on DATE-May 15, 2009 18:13:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy Elder Petersen and Patricia McKee Bauer, along with several regular visitors, will be staffing the GenChat room beginning about 6:45 p.m. Thursday evening. We close the door about 9:00 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. We have visitors who will give you a willing helping hand with your genealogy brick walls. You can enter questions or answers at any time but we hope you will be able to join us when we are open for discussions. BRICKWALL PROJECT: We didn't receive any special brickwall to use this week so Pat is going to test the abilities of our "crew" again. She says, "I've searched for many years (but not recently) for the parents of my great grandfather. Here is what I know: Robert HARDY (no middle name) was born in England (supposedly in Norfolk) 11 Dec 1852. He became a US citizen in 1876 in Oregon. He was a seaman and later became a farmer. He and Mary Alice ROSS Wigginton (a divorcee in the 1870's!) were married 12 Oct 1878 in Vancouver, Clark, Washington. They are in the 1880 census living at Beaver Dam, Washington County, Oregon. They made their home in Amboy, Clark, Washington beginning in 1887. Their children were named: Alice Euphemia; Robert Lewis; George Henery; Thomas William; Grover Harold and Ralph Elden - in case any of these might be a clue as to his parents' names. I have extensive info on all the family members. I have an old tintype which I will post here of two children. I'm quite certain the little boy on the trike is Robert Hardy, with a sister perhaps 3 years older. I'll post a photo of Robert Hardy in later years so you can compare. The tintype was in with Robert Hardy's belongings when he died. In comparing the eyes and the ears of the little boy and the older Robert Hardy, I'm certain they are the same person. O.K. GenChatters - you have your work cut out for you this time!" Please click on the "log-out" button (lower right) before you leave. Meanwhile, you can see our past transcripts with the link below: Past transcripts: www.rootsweb.com/~waccgs/p3424.htm