May 7, 2009 Remember to begin reading this transcript from the bottom to the top! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:52:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ok Pat! Glad it's working again anyway! FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:52:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm going to log out, grab the transcript and post it. I hope Gail is pleased with all that has been found for her - I was quite amazed at the amount of info! I'm going to leave now - Goodnight all. See you next week. FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:51:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looks like Joy has left us - maybe it's time to shut down for the evening since none of the "bouncees" came back. Hopefully the program will work a lot better next week. Surely hope it doesn't act this way when we do "GenChat Live" at the CCGS meeting! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:39:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think that Spartanburg SC family is another separate ELDER line, which I named "PETER ELDER of VA" DNA group. Also fit on the Scotland DNA chart, with all the other ELDER lines,tho. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:37:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I was also trying to send Carolyn the William ELDER, Indian Trader webpage, which I think I've posted before, too. Other children of William Elder(s) (b.c. 1699 d. 1748) There is no indication that he had any white children. He left at least two Cherokee children in Tennessee. He had nephews (William, Thomas, James and John Elder) who had interactions with the Emory family in lower South Carolina and in Spartanburg. (More on these below.) http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tnpolk2/elder.htm FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:36:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think you're right about that Joy. FROM: Joy2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:34:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: In the writing mentioned by Gail, I think the Rosalinda mentioned by Gail in the query is not Jay Bradford's daughter, but Jay Bradford's Father Jay's daughter (Jay Bradford's sister). We have seen from the notes below that Jay Bradford has a sister Rosalind Here's the quoted paragraph Joseph Soll Turley's Family Getting back to our branch of our family, my oldest brother, Jay, had two sons. One drowned when five years of age by a cave-in on a bank of the river in Highwater. The other, Jay Bradford, born September 4, 1905, is 6' 8" tall and is in the real estate business, whom I brought to the family reunion three years ago. He has a handsome son, 6' 3", who is a script-writer for TV Westerns and lives in West Los Angeles; he has two grown daughters. Jay also had two daughters and each 6' 1 ¾" tall and one of them, Rosalinda, has a son 6' 10" tall and a daughter 6' 4" tall; both former basketball players. His youngest daughter has several grown children, all married, living in northern California. She is only 5' 7" but with a heart as big as all outdoors. Specifically look at this statement about Jay Bradford: he has two grown daughters. Jay also had two daughters and each 6' 1 ¾" tall and one of them, Rosalinda, Why would you say Jay has two grown daughters and Jay also had two daughters? That's why I think the second Jay with two daughters is referring to Jay Bradford's father Jay. FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:34:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Some of my Belden ancestors did the maiden name of the wives on their stones. Such as Mary Smith, wife of John Belden - surely helps find those elusive female names! FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:32:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That's a neat grave stone for his wife Nancy - complete with her maiden name. I like that. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:30:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Bio of ROBERT Y. ELDER.... Mr. Elder married Nancy W. Douglas, daughter of John Douglas, and she died on the farm in 1896, at the age of eight-one years, and was buried beside her husband. They had children as follows: Maria J., who married Thomas Elder and resides in Indiana; John Douglas, who was second lieutenant of Company D., 62nd Regiment, Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, and was killed at the battle of Malvern Hill, while in command of his company, July 2, 1862; http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/Ro bertYElder.htm FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:26:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: John Douglas was the father of John Adams ELDER. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:24:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Found my file: WorldConnect http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=temp alexander&id=I062790 # ID: I062790 # Name: John Douglas Elder # Sex: M # Birth: 1837 in Pennsylvania # Death: 1 JUL 1862 in At Malvern Hill, VA While In Command Of Co. D In Civil War # Reference Number: 34716 *** # Name: Robert Elder # Sex: M # Birth: 23 DEC 1809 in Indiana Co. PA. # Death: 26 MAR 1890 in Elder's Ridge, Indiana Co., PA. # Burial: Fairview Cemetery, Elder's Ridge, Indiana Co., PA. # Reference Number: 29724 Father: Robert Elder b: 1772 in Pennsylvania Mother: Mary Smith b: 1768 in Pennsylvania Marriage 1 Nancy Wallace Douglass b: 12 JAN 1815 in Indiana Co. PA. Father: Robert Elder b: 23 DEC 1809 in Indiana Co. PA. Elder's Ridge PA location is a good clue to the "PAXTANG PA" DNA group. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:20:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn, Now I remember looking for him. Found out he's a different line, from "PAXTANG PA" DNA group. John Adams Elder: Fredericksburg's Civil War Artist by Michael Aubrecht, The Free Lance-Star: TOWN & COUNTY Feature Date published: 11/17/07 Section: CIVIL WAR Also online at: Fredericksburg Museum showcases work by John Adams Elder FROM: Joy2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:19:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There are no Turley's in the California birth index with a mother's maiden name of Spooner... which would make me think that the "half sisters" mentioned in the Brickwall, might actually be Baggetts instead of Turleys (from Elva's first marriage) OR>>> they weren't born in California FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:18:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Welcome Nance. Wouldn't it be exciting if it was one of your ancestors? You should at least check it out.. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:17:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks Carolyn! FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:11:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looks like we all had the same problem! I sent two messages that went into a big black hole. One was to Nancy. Nancy: In the book "A Pictorial History of the Civil War" by Paul M. Angle, page about 191 (photo picture pages not numbered), there is alarge picture from the Library of Congress as a source. The caption reads as follows: "A spirited engraving, from a painting by J.A. Elder, of the savage fighting at the Crater, July 30, 1864. Any relation? It's a fab painting of men in combat. A classic. FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:11:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Now we have Pat2 and Joy2 - we think alike! ;-) FROM: Joy2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:10:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Yep. Me too. FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:09:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That was really strange. I thought everyone was just being very quiet but then I tried to post a couple of things and they wouldn't go! FROM: Joy2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:09:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here is what I wanted to add... 1930 United States Federal Census Name: Talmage Baggett Home in 1930: Police Jury Ward 3, Allen, Louisiana William J Baggett 32 Elva M Baggett 22 Talmage Baggett 3 5/12 On the same page of the 1930 census as William J & Elva M Baggett and son Talmage are these LIKELY relatives Baggett James L (40) & Mattie (36), Joe G, Jewel and Jerrel Spooner, Jesse H (42) & Tracie E (48) and children Annie L, Violet (Byron Talmage's birth record says his mother's maiden name was SPOONER. These might be her parents) Baggett Milton J (49) & Cora (38), Virgie, Arnold, Bessie, Opal and M J 1920 United States Federal Census about Jessie Spooner Name: Jessie Spooner Home in 1920: Henderson, Union, Arkansas Age: 33 years Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887 Birthplace: Arkansas Relation to Head-of-house: Head Spouse's name: Grace Father's Birth Place: United States of America Mother's Birth Place: United States of America Marital Status: Married Race: White Sex: Male Home owned: Own Able to read: Yes Able to Write: Yes Image: 886 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Jessie Spooner 33 Grace Spooner 28 Elzie Spooner 13 Allie Spooner 11 Daniel R Spooner 8 Annie L Spooner 5 Violet Spooner 2 1/12 (Elzie would be Elva) 1910 United States Federal Census about Jesse Spooner Name: Jesse Spooner Age in 1910: 24 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886 Birthplace: Arkansas Relation to Head-of-house: Head Father's Birth Place: United States of America Mother's Birth Place: United States of America Spouse's name: Grace Home in 1910: El Dorado, Union, Arkansas Marital Status: Married Race: White Gender: Male Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Jesse Spooner 24 Grace Spooner 20 Elva Spooner 3 Alice Spooner 1 3/12 FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:09:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy, do you want me to post the info, or do you still have it? FROM: Joy2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:08:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think the webhost burped FROM: Steve on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:08:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I didn't try backing out then back in, but just kept the same session alive. FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:06:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm the only one here right now, beside you. FROM: Pat2 on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:06:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It looks like most everyone got bounced out of here. All of a sudden I couldn't post and finally had to reboot! FROM: Steve on DATE-May 7, 2009 3:05:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: First time I've seen everyone logged out on the same second. My session is now in limbo ... seems to be connected, but the "Send To" only shows Pat. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:44:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, Was that in Spartanburg, SC? I've just been answering some queries there. Indian Trader William ELDER involved, some Cherokee children. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:44:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Charles - has winter finally left Spokane? I really did think the calendar was wrong and that I had turned over too many pages at one time. It has seemed like February for soooo long! FROM: Jim on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:43:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Charles. I was in Spokane during the week after Easter. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:43:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Anything I can help anyone with? Nancy: I was lying in bed looking at a civil war book, and saw a picture by a J.A. Elder I think it was. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:41:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ah, such is life. He will probably evade me until the day I die! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:40:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, I remember looking hard for that one! We found lots of clues, but no luck! FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:39:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi guys and gals. I've got a brick wall for you. Same old one: ancestors of William Henry Fleming. I have lots of stuff on Wm Henry, but have never been able to find his parents. I did recently find a scribble on a piece of paper my mother wrote decades ago. Said she thought her father's grandfather was buried in Texas. I've been looking in Missouri, where William removed to, and was also born. (Ray County which could have been part of Jackson County maybe. That's around Kansas City, MO. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:37:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Yipes! No wonder it's hard to read! Ancestry.com 1910 Name: Nellie Farzer [Nellie Furzer] Age in 1910: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891 Birthplace: Antarctica Relation to Head-of-house: Daughter Father's Name: George Father's Birth Place: England Mother's Name: Mary Mother's Birth Place: England Home in 1910: Salt Lake City Ward 3, Salt Lake, Utah Marital Status: Single Race: White Gender: Female Year of Immigration: 1896 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age George Farzer 43 Mary Farzer 37 Nellie Farzer 19 Evelyn Farzer 18 Florence Booth 17 Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Salt Lake City Ward 3, Salt Lake, Utah; Roll: T624_1607; Page: 5B; Enumeration District: 131; Image: 319. FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:35:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have the "chat meeting" on my calendar... now, must be off to do my "closing chores" here at Humble House... see ya next week. Take care, all. Bye. FROM: Margaret-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:34:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here is what I found on Heritage Quest. In the 1900 Census the Furzer family is living at 684 Second West in Salt Lake City. George W. Furzer b. Apr 1865, age 35, married 11 years, b. England as were parents, emigrated 1894, 6 yrs in the U.S., naturalized, occupation: lineman. Mary Furzer b. Sep 1872, age 27, married 11 yrs., mother of 2, both now living, b. Australia, father b. Ireland, mother b. England, emigrated 1893, in U.S. 7 years. Nellie Furzer b. Jan 1890, age 10, single, b. Australia, father b. England, mother b. Australia, emigrated 1891, in U.S. 9 yrs., at school. Evelyn Furzer b. Apr 1891, age 9, single, b. Australia, father b. England, mother b. Australia, no emigration info, at school. Salt Lake 3rd ward, 8 June 1900, Sup. Dist "Utah", Enum. Dist. 30, sheet 3, Series T623, Roll 1684, page 35 This is much easier to read than the 1910 Census: Nellie Furzer is living with her parents in the 1910 Census. 585 Wall Street, Third Ward, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, Series T624, Roll 1607, page 158, Supervisor's District T Utah, Enumeration District 131, sheet 5B, 19 April, line 55, dwelling 86, family 107 Furzer, George Head Male White age 43, married once at age 22, b. England, native language English (same for both parents), emigration date reads like 1896, alien (not naturalized), speaks English, occupation reads like "fireman"? and place of employment Electric Light Company (rest of line omitted). Furzer, Mary Wife Female White age 37, married once at age 20, mother of 2 children, both now living, b. (? abbreviated, looks like Cta.?) native language English, Father (looks like Ire.-Irish) Mother b. England, speaks English, emigrated 1896, speaks English, no occupation. Furzer, Nellie Daughter Female White age 19, single, b. Aus, speaks English, both parents read (Eng.-English), emigrated 1896, speaks English, no occupation. Furzer, Evelyn Daughter Female White age 18, single, b. Aus., speaks English, parent information the same, emigrated 1896, employed as a saleswoman in a candy store. Booth, Florence, Friend, Female White age 17, single, b. Utah, parents both "Eng.-English," speaks English, employed as a saleswoman in a candy store. In the 1920 Census, Horace Heath, age 8, is living with George and Mary Furzer (indexed under "Turzer" by Heritage Quest), listed as their grandson, same address in Salt Lake City. Nellie Heath, age 29, is in the 1920 Census living in Precinct 95, Seattle, King, WA at 513 Third Ave. North, apt. E, married, emigrated 1894, b. Australia, parents b. England, occupation none. With her is daughter L. Maxine Heath, age 7, single, b. Utah, father b. Utah, mother b. Australia. Series T625, Roll 1926 page 13. I cannot find Nellie's husband Horace yet. It is possible that the name is not indexed as "Heath" but as something else. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:34:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Margaret - I'll give you my e-mail address and you can send them there FROM: Margaret-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:33:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Surnames: FURZER, HEATH Nellie FURZER was b. 22 Jan 1895 in Melbourne, Australia. She emigrated to the U.S. and was living on a pig ranch in Haley, Idaho in 1910; the ranch was owned by Horace Albert HEATH, a member of the LDS church. Nellie and Horace were married 19 Jan 1911 in Salt Lake City. Where can I find Nellie in 1910 and before 1910? In what year did she leave Australia? I know she had a sibling Eva b. in Australia, and other siblings. What were the other siblings' names and where were they born? I have not yet searched the 1910 Census. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:33:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I hope you folks from SIGS will join us Tuesday evening, May 26, when we do a live demo at the CCGS meeting. I've been trying to decide if I should go to town to the meeting or not - hope I don't have to because I'd much rather do everything from home. Our meeting will begin at 7pm with a quick election of people to fill two offices and then we'll be "on board." FROM: Margaret-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:32:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hmm, Pat. Well, I will cut & paste what I did into here for you. I'm not going to include the submitter's name, though. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:31:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy, That looks great! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:31:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Margaret - we could use some of those queries as brickwall projects in GenChat - if you want to share! FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:30:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: AND this CCGS chat channel was mentioned, too FROM: Margaret-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:30:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: One of the queries involved emigrants from Melbourne, Australia to Utah. I will take note of the sources you mentioned to help a person in the genealogy class at the Lynnwood Senior Center. FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:30:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ah... Found him! Talmage... and his mother Elva... 1930 United States Federal Census Name: Talmage Baggett Home in 1930: Police Jury Ward 3, Allen, Louisiana William J Baggett 32 Elva M Baggett 22 Talmage Baggett 3 5/12 FROM: Margaret-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:29:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi, all. We had a successful program at SIGS last night on writing queries. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:28:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, I don't think we've had any feedback from our Native American searches and comments yet! Always hoping for logins here! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:27:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn, How are you doing this evening? FROM: Jim on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:26:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Before you check the NA microfilm M237_427, you might try the series of books, "Germans to America," in order to determine the arrival date. That will make it easier to use the NA microfilm. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:26:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jim! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:25:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening Jim - nice to see you here again. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:25:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I sent an e-mail to Gail in hopes she will join us this evening. She is going to be so surprised at what you've found Joy! FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:24:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy, not sure FROM: Jim on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:23:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:20:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Same one? Name: Conrad Mockel Arrival Date: 5 Jun 1880 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832 Age: 48 Gender: Male Port of Departure: Bremen, Germany and Southampton, England Destination: United States of America Place of Origin: Germany Ethnicity/Race- /Nationality: German Ship Name: Oder Search Ship Database: Search the Oder in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Port of Arrival: New York Line: 22 Microfilm Serial: M237 Microfilm Roll: M237_427 List Number: 670 Port Arrival State: New York Port Arrival Country: United States Source Citation: Year: 1880; Arrival: New York , United States; Microfilm serial: M237; Microfilm roll: M237_427; Line: 22; List number: 670. FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:19:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Steve, Nancy - Carol is searching Ancestry to find more details re: the Montana MOCKELs... she is a happy camper thanks to the info you've both provided FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:17:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jay's Sibling Urna LuRee Turley Wright, born July 19, 1915 in El Paso, Texas; married (1) Kenneth Kislia Bacon Dec. 24, 1936--divorced, (2) Earnest Earl Davis, (3) Charles Lester Wright on Feb. 12, 1946 Social Security Death Index about Luree T. Wright Name: Luree T. Wright SSN: 557-36-3953 Last Residence: 94019 Half Moon Bay, San Mateo, California, United States of America Born: 19 Jul 1915 Died: 26 Jan 1999 State (Year) SSN issued: California (Before 1951) U.S. Phone and Address Directories, 1993-2002 about Luree Wright Name: Luree Wright Spouse: Charles L, Sr Address: 80 Bloom Ln City: Half Moon Bay State: California Zip Code: 94019-2104 Phone Number: 650-726-4111 Residence Years: 1998 U.S. Phone and Address Directories, 1993-2002 about Luree T Wright Name: Luree T Wright Spouse: Charles L, Sr Address: 80 Bloom Ln City: Half Moon Bay State: California Zip Code: 94019-2104 Phone Number: 415-726-4111 Residence Years: 1997 California Death Index, 1940-1997 about Kenneth Kislia Bacon Name: Kenneth Kislia Bacon Social Security #: 526038319 Sex: MALE Birth Date: 28 Sep 1911 Birthplace: Iowa Death Date: 7 Nov 1996 Death Place: San Diego Mother's Maiden Name: Kislia U.S. Veterans Gravesites, ca.1775-2006 about Kenneth Kislia Bacon Name: Kenneth Kislia Bacon Service Info.: US NAVY WORLD WAR II Birth Date: 28 Sep 1911 Death Date: 7 Nov 1996 Cemetery: Alpine Cemetery Assoc Cemetery Address: 2495 Victoria Drive (619) 445-2525 Alpine, CA 91903 Social Security Death Index about Kenneth K. Bacon Name: Kenneth K. Bacon SSN: 526-03-8319 Last Residence: 91903 Alpine, San Diego, California, United States of America Born: 28 Sep 1911 Died: 7 Nov 1996 State (Year) SSN issued: Arizona (Before 1951) U.S. Public Records Index about Kenneth K Bacon Name: Kenneth K Bacon Address: Pob 66, Alpine, California 91903-0101 (1993) [438 Arnold WY, Alpine, California 91901-0401 (1983)] U.S. Phone and Address Directories, 1993-2002 about Kenneth K Bacon Name: Kenneth K Bacon Address: 438 Arnold Way City: Alpine State: California Zip Code: 91901-2708 Phone Number: 619-445-3878 Residence Years: 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 CHILDREN California Birth Index, 1905-1995 about Urna Roeda Wright Name: Urna Roeda Wright Birth Date: 19 Nov 1946 Gender: Female Mother's Maiden Name: Turley Birth County: San Mateo California Birth Index, 1905-1995 about Garold Flynn Wright Name: Garold Flynn Wright Birth Date: 7 Oct 1947 Gender: Male Mother's Maiden Name: Turley Birth County: Mendocino Daily Review (Hayward, California), 22 June 1966, page 25 Pfc Garold F Wright, 18, son of Mr. and Mrs. Charles L. Wright, Route 1, Box 529, Pleasanton, has been assigned to the 1st Infantry Division in Vietnam FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:16:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Finda grave - MOCKEL in same cemetery Mockel, Albert E. b. Aug. 22, 1908 d. Mar. 8, 1992 Forestvale Cemetery Helena Lewis and Clark County Montana, USA Mockel, Conrad b. Jul. 24, 1834 d. Nov. 24, 1905 Forestvale Cemetery Helena Lewis and Clark County Montana, USA Mockel, Elise b. 1881 d. 1973 Forestvale Cemetery Helena Lewis and Clark County Montana, USA Mockel, Marie Huth b. Oct. 12, 1852 d. Oct. 3, 1918 Forestvale Cemetery Helena Lewis and Clark County Montana, USA Mockel, Philip b. 1874 d. 1929 Forestvale Cemetery Helena Lewis and Clark County Montana, USA Mockel, Walter E. A. b. 1902 d. 1923 FROM: Steve on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:15:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Any port in a storm. Relocation costs may have been cheaper. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:14:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Marge, Wrong birth date? Find a grave: Montana http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Mockel& GScnty=1618&GRid=25871740& Conrad Mockel Birth: Jul. 24, 1834 Death: Nov. 24, 1905 Burial: Forestvale Cemetery Helena Lewis and Clark County Montana, USA Created by: A Marine's Daughter Record added: Apr 09, 2008 Find A Grave Memorial# 25871740 FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:14:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Steve, some of MY Germans came to Boston in that time period - Australia seems (to me) an unusual destination... FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:14:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jay's Sibling Alice Rosalind Turley Wrage, b. Jan. 26, 1912 in Santa Fe; m. Evert Clause Wrage March, 1935 Social Security Death Index about Everett C. Wrage Name: Everett C. Wrage SSN: 561-03-4892 Born: 2 Jul 1908 Died: 4 Mar 1991 State (Year) SSN issued: California (Before 1951) Florida Death Index, 1877-1998 about Everett Claus Wrage Name: Everett Claus Wrage Death Date: 4 Mar 1991 County of Death: Brevard State of Death: Florida Age at Death: 82 Race: White Birth Date: 2 Jul 1908 CHILDREN: California Birth Index, 1905-1995 about William Everett Wrage Name: William Everett Wrage Birth Date: 13 Nov 1938 Gender: Male Mother's Maiden Name: Turley Birth County: San Diego California Birth Index, 1905-1995 about Jacquelyn Diane Wrage Name: Jacquelyn Diane Wrage Birth Date: 21 Jun 1937 Gender: Female Mother's Maiden Name: Turley Birth County: San Diego U.S. Public Records Index about Everett C Wrage Name: Everett C Wrage Address: 2123 Warwick Rd, Melbourne, Florida 32935-1101 (1992) California Voters Registration San Diego County 1938 Roll 25 Precinct 22 Wrage, Everett C - 4138 Banning, Ocean Beach, Frmr. Dem. Wrage, Mrs. Rosalind - 4138 Banning, Ocean Beach, Hw. Rep. Social Security Death Index about Rosalind Wrage Name: Rosalind Wrage SSN: 556-36-4908 Last Residence: 32935 Melbourne, Brevard, Florida, United States of America Born: 26 Jan 1911 Died: 29 Mar 2003 State (Year) SSN issued: California (Before 1951) FROM: Carol-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:14:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thank you, Nancy. I'm checking Ancestry now. Thanks, Steve. Good suggestion. FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:12:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jay's Siblings: Dulce Omna Turley Carr, born Aug. 22, 1907 in Santa Fe; m. Cecil Laverne Carr March, 1934 Florida Death Index, 1877-1998 about Dulce Omna Turley Carr Name: Dulce Omna Turley Carr Death Date: 20 Jul 1998 County of Death: Polk State of Death: Florida Age at Death: 89 Race: White Birth Date: 22 Aug 1908 A daughter of Dulce Omna Turley Carr California Birth Index, 1905-1995 about Pamela Dulce Carr Name: Pamela Dulce Carr Birth Date: 29 Jan 1942 Gender: Female Mother's Maiden Name: Turley Birth County: San Diego FROM: Steve on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:11:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Marge: In the political turmoil leading up to the unification of the Federal Republic of Germany (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) on 18 January 1871, there were probably many reasons for people to depart. Carol might was to look more closely into the region for the trends. FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:08:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy - that would explain the different surnames. FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:08:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: If Byron Baggett is a grandson of Elva Turley, that would make Talmage Baggett Elva's son... and since he's not "Turley" I would assume he was a son from a marriage prior to Elva's marriage to Jay Bradford Turley -- and thus not a blood relative to Turleys FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:07:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ancestry.com Australian Convict Records Searches in the seven Australian convict databases need to be carried out one database at a time. If you use the search box on the main landing page for the ... www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=11822 FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:05:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The British Convict transportation registers 1787-1867 database has been compiled from the British Home Office (HO) records which are available on microfilm. You can find details for over 123 000 of the estimated 160 000 convicts transported to Australia in the 18th and 19th centuries - names, term of years, transport ships and more. More detailed information is available about this convict database. You can also find out about the creation and launch of the database. http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/info/fh/convicts FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:05:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: U.S. Public Records Index about Byron T Baggett Name: Byron T Baggett Birth Date: Dec 1957 Address: 14926 E 11th Ave CT, Perris, California 92370-1001 (1992) [496 W 4th St, Perris, California 92370-0601 (1992)] [608 P O Box, Perris, California 92370] U.S. Public Records Index about Talmage Baggett Name: Talmage Baggett Address: Pob 608, Perris, California 92370-0401 (1990) FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:05:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy, Carol is on her way here FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:04:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Talmage and ??? Demello would likely be married before Byron's birth, and thus too early to be on the 1960-1999 Marriage records on Ancestry.com FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:04:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Australian Cemetery Search http://cemindex.arkangles.com/inscriptions.php FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:03:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Of course, Carol is wondering WHY a German couple (maybe with kids) would emigrate from Germany to Australia sometime before 1862 FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:03:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Victoria records https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:03:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Riverside National Cemetery Riverside, Riverside County, California Baggett, David La Fayette, b. 04/20/1909, d. 02/04/2000, US Navy, CM3, Res: Corona, CA, Plot: 50 0 4134, bur. 02/08/2000 Baggett, Talmage , b. 11/01/1926, d. 11/12/1989, US Army, CPL, Res: Perris, CA, Plot: A 0 133, bur. 08/23/1990 California Death Index, 1940-1997 about Talmage Baggett Name: Talmage Baggett Social Security #: 439345780 Sex: MALE Birth Date: 1 Nov 1926 Birthplace: Arkansas Death Date: 12 Nov 1989 Death Place: Riverside Mother's Maiden Name: Spooner 1950 Los Angeles County Voters Registration Baggett, Talmage, 1522 Junipero av, D (same address as Elva Turley) U.S. Veterans Gravesites, ca.1775-2006 about Talmage Baggett Name: Talmage Baggett Service Info.: S1 US NAVY WORLD WAR II Birth Date: 1 Nov 1926 Death Date: 12 Nov 1989 Service Start Date: 23 Oct 1946 Interment Date: 23 Aug 1990 Cemetery: Riverside National Cemetery Cemetery Address: 22495 Van Buren Boulevard Riverside, CA 92518 Buried At: Section A Site 133 U.S. Public Records Index about Talmage Baggett Name: Talmage Baggett Address: Pob 608, Perris, California 92370-0401 (1990) FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:02:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: For the grandson that was mentioned that lived with Elva and took care of her burial: California Birth Index, 1905-1995 about Byron T Baggett Name: Byron T Baggett Birth Date: 14 Dec 1957 Gender: Male Mother's Maiden Name: Demello Birth County: Los Angeles Independent (Long Beach, California) 27 December 1957 BELLWOOD GENERAL HOSPITAL BAGGETT - Mr. & Mrs. Talmage, 19325 Gridley Rd., boy, Dec. 14 So his father is Talmage Baggett, and mother is Unknown DEMELLO FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:02:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Father, mother born Hesse-Darmstadt. Carol is tracking a kid Conrad Christof MOCKEL b 1862 in Melbourne. Family ended up in Montana. Parents Balthazar and Teresa MOCKEL FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:01:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Univ. of Melbourne records at http://www.unimelb.edu.au/records/index.html FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:00:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Perris Valley Cemetery Perris, Riverside County, California Turley, Elva S., b. Sep 14, 1907, d. ****, On monument with Jay Turley, Sec/Row V2 Turley, Jay Bradford, b. Sep 04, 1905, d. Aug 20, 1977, On monument with Elva Turley, Sec/Row V2 FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:00:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Husband: J Bradford TURLEY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Born: at: Married: at: Died: at: Father: Mother: Other Spouses: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wife: Virginia Jeanette FERGUSON -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Born: 12 Aug 1910 at: Sulphur Springs, Hopkins Co, Tx Died: at: Father:Leonard Pomroy FERGUSON Mother:Simmie Celeste ROSS Other Spouses: Jess STANSEL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:00:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Wow Joy - you've really been busy. Those are some really good finds. FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 2:00:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: This MIGHT be a child of Jay Bradford Turley, but it might be another J.B. Texas Birth Index, 1903-1997 about Detta Mae Turley Name: Detta Mae Turley Date of Birth: 25 Oct 1931 Gender: Female Birth County: Grayson Father's Name: J B Turley Mother's Name: Bertha Mae Diles Roll Number: 1931_0008 FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:59:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Social Security Death Index about Elva S. Turley Name: Elva S. Turley SSN: 459-24-2662 Last Residence: 92572 Perris, Riverside, California Born: 14 Sep 1907 Died: 9 Aug 2004 State (Year) SSN issued: Texas (Before 1951) 1938 Interstate Directory Company's Kilgore, Texas City Directory Turley, J Bradford (Elva) slsmn Atlas Ins Co h 919 e Houston FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:59:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Long Beach Independent (Long Beach, California) 6 June 1947, page 45 K-82210 - J. B. & Elva Turley. Tract No. 1577 21/94-95 MB Lot 95 7.34 FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:57:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Omner Jay Turley (1877-1942) The Theodore Turley Family Book, pp. 547-548 Omner Jay married Urna Hickox in Santa Fe. New Mexico on Sept. 7, 1904. She was the daughter of George Waller Hickox and Mary Alice Crawford, and was born Jan. 25, 1883 in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Jay and Urna had five children. After Jay died on Sept. 12, 1942, Urna married William Holt. Jay was buried in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Children of Omner Jay and Urna Hickox Turley: Jay Bradford Turley, born April 4, 1905 in Santa Fe, New Mexico; m .Elya on May 24, 1943 Theodore Roy Turley. born 1906 in Santa Fe; died in 1912 Dulce Omna Turley Carr, born Aug. 22, 1907 in Santa Fe; m. Cecil Laverne Carr March, 1934 Alice Rosalind Turley Wrage, b. Jan. 26, 1912 in Santa Fe; m. Evert Clause Wrage March, 1935 Urna LuRee Turley Wright, born July 19, 1915 in El Paso, Texas; married (1) Kenneth Kislia Bacon Dec. 24, 1936- -divorced, (2) Earnest Earl Davis, (3) Charles Lester Wright on Feb. 12, 1946 [BD from from IGI] To contact us send to wgray@tonkatoo.com Our home page is http://www.geocities.com/wallygray25/index.html FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:57:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Marge, I have some early ELDER info from that period, and some notes about a new Convict database, too! FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:56:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The little turley boy was Theodore Roy Turley, b about 1907, a year younger than Jay Bradford Turley FROM: Joy on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:55:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: An Enduring Legacy An Enduring Legacy, Volume Three Locality Histories Calder's Park September 15, 1962, the Navajo Dam was dedicated and the Hammond ditch has water in it again after fifty-four years. The first attempt to survey for a dam across the San Juan River was made in 1909 by Guy and Jay Turley. Their survey was almost identical to the present site of the dam. One of the little Turley boys fell into the river during one of the big floods and was never found. Matilda Reid FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:55:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Miss Carol (who was REelected prez of SIGS last nite) has a question re: researching Australian birth records... anyone with any experience with Melbourne vital recds time period 1862-ish? FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:54:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Joy! Nancy's found some census records for the brickwall tonight. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:54:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Joy! Glad to see you! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:53:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Name: John W Padgett Age in 1910: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884 Birthplace: Indiana Relation to Head-of-house: Roomer Father's Birth Place: Virginia Mother's Birth Place: Indiana Home in 1910: Aztec, San Juan, New Mexico Marital Status: Single Race: White Gender: Male FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:52:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Name: Marie G Miller Age in 1910: 22 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888 Birthplace: South Carolina Relation to Head-of-house: Ward Father's Birth Place: Germany Mother's Birth Place: New Jersey Home in 1910: Aztec, San Juan, New Mexico Marital Status: Single Race: White Gender: Female FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:52:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Name: Paul W Miller Age in 1910: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894 Birthplace: Pennsylvania Relation to Head-of-house: Ward Father's Birth Place: Germany Mother's Birth Place: New Jersey Home in 1910: Aztec, San Juan, New Mexico Marital Status: Single Race: White Gender: Male FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:52:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Marge! FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:51:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi, Nancy and all FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:51:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Marie Miller relation is "Ward". FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:50:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Marge! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:50:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good find on that 1910 census records Nancy. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:50:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Edith is Sister-in-law FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:49:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I saw that, too, Nancy - wish it had mother's maiden name! Family must not have known anything about his life. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:49:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1910 Name: Jay B Turley Age in 1910: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1906 Birthplace: New Mexico Relation to Head-of-house: Son Father's Name: Jay Father's Birth Place: Utah Mother's Name: Vena B Mother's Birth Place: New Mexico Home in 1910: Aztec, San Juan, New Mexico Marital Status: Single Race: White Gender: Male Household Members: Name Age Jay Turley 33 Vena B Turley 27 Jay B Turley 4 Theodore R Turley 3 Dulce O Turley 1 8/12 Edith F Hickox 23 Marie G Miller 22 Paul W Miller 16 John W Padgett 26 Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Aztec, San Juan, New Mexico; Roll: T624_917; Page: 3A; Enumeration District: 189; Image: 354. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:48:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: California Death Index Name: Jay B Turley Social Security #: 463059177 Sex: MALE Birth Date: 4 Sep 1905 Birthplace: New Mexico Death Date: 20 Aug 1977 Death Place: Riverside FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:45:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Pat, I was hoping to hear more from the Native American researchers, too? I haven't tried any of the Turley query. Always watchng for Joy's good works! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:44:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Nancy - I wish I had that info to include with the Wednesday Blurb yesterday but received it too late. I didn't want to send out another message! FROM: PatB on DATE-May 7, 2009 1:42:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I was hoping I'd come in tonight to a room full of visitors! I've been puttering at the computer most of the day, trying to work on three reunions for August! Mostly right now I'm working on my high school reunion and am cropping the over 400 photos from our annual to use in the Memory Book from this reunion. I want to include the high school photo with info about the person this time. Last time I used the high school photo only for the deceased members, this time I want to include them for everyone. What a chore! FROM: Pat on DATE-May 7, 2009 13:10:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: This message came from Gail Parsons to one of our members and he forwarded it to me. He's hoping we can help Gail with her search. Looks like we can have a busy time with this one! "My father is 83 and lives in California and was raised as an only child of a Ziegfeld Follies dancer. My grandmother was: Virginia Ferguson Turley at the time of my fathers birth on 07/21/1927 in Santa Fe New Mexico. My grandfather was: Jay Bradford Turley social security number 463-05-9177. Born in Santa Fe, NM 09/04/1905. Died, 08/19/1977 and buried in the Perris , California. The long and short of this is this is: my grandmother Virginia was 14 years old when my Dad was born and her husband was 17, I believe. When my grandmother became pregnant my grandfather ran off and abandoned my pregnant grandmother and never returned. Needless to say my grandmother had a serious axe to grind with him and they divorced shortly after my father's birth. My grandfathers name was NEVER mentioned in my life and I knew to never ask about him. In the past few years as my father has aged I have been very interested in finding out about my grandfather and any potential family members as I am all Dad has and I hoped that he might have siblings he could finally share some life with, since my grandmother died about 5 years ago. I have searched hundreds of hours and have made contact with one first cousin after many searches. I have learned that my grandfather Jay Bradford remarried in California in 1943 to Elva S. ? Turley born in Arkansas 09/14/1907 and died 08/09/2004 and was buried next to my grandfather in Perris, California. There was no record of any children in the cemetery record but there was the name Byron Baggett was listed as a grandson who made the arrangements for Elva's burial in 2004 and was living at her address at the time of her death. In talking to a cousin of mine I learned that my grandfather was the only one of the 6 (I believe) siblings who did not remain close. No one seems to know the names of his two daughters except there was a book written about the Turley's as my great great grandfather, Theodore Turley, was one of the founding members of the Mormon Church. In that book there was a chapter from one of the brothers of my great grandfather, Dr. Joseph Soll Turley, who wrote down his memories of a family reunion in which he actually attended and shared a ride with my grandfather Jay Bradford Turley in the summer of 1971. In that chapter written three years after the reunion he discusses my grandfather and my dad in addition to my father's two half sisters. I will quote from it: " Getting back to our branch of the family, my oldest brother, Jay had two sons. One drowned when five years of age by a cave-in on a bank of the river in Highwater. The other, Jay Bradford, born 9-04-1905,(note, he had the date transposed in the book) and is 6'8" tall and is in the real estate business, whom I brought to the family reunion three years ago. He has a son 6'3", who is a script-writer for TV Westerns and lives in West Los Angeles; he has two grown daughters (note, he is speaking of my Dad, my sister and me). Jay also has two daughters, one is 6' 13/4" tall and one of them, Rosalinda, has a son 6' 10" tall and a daughter 6' 4" tall; both former basketball players. His youngest daughter has several grown children, all married living in Northern California. She is only 5' 7" but with the heart as big as all out doors" So, what I do know is this: Apparently my dad has two half sisters that are closer to my age, born after 1943. One is named Rosalinda and the other unknown. They were likely born in California to Jay Bradford and Elva S. Turley after 1943. Both are believed to be alive and one might have a son named Byron Baggett. My father is 83 and I feel the urgency to find his siblings soon so he might have a chance to know them. My Dad lives in Santa Barbara, Ca. and it seems tragic that he might actually close in proximity to them and not have the opportunity to know them while he is alive and sharp as a tack. I was hoping that what I have told you might give you some insight or direction that you might suggest me to proceed. I have literally run into a brick wall and can't find anything else. If you would be so kind to help me I would be extremely grateful. I would simply love to have some family who actually lived in California who would embrace Dad so he could share some of his twilight years around a family table and share a lost life." FROM: Nancy & Pat on DATE-May 6, 2009 1:06:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy Elder Petersen and Patricia McKee Bauer, along with several regular visitors, will be staffing the GenChat room beginning about 6:45 p.m. Thursday evening. We close the door about 9:00 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. We have visitors who will give you a willing helping hand with your genealogy brick walls. You can enter questions or answers at any time but we hope you will be able to join us when we are open for discussions. BRICKWALL PROJECT: We don't have any special project for this week so please enter any questions you might have and we'll see if we can help you. Please click on the "log-out" button (lower right) before you leave. Meanwhile, you can see our past transcripts with the link below: Past transcripts: www.rootsweb.com/~waccgs/p3424.htm