July 2, 2009 Remember to begin reading this transcript from the bottom to the top! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 4:00:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gnight all! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 4:00:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It looks like it's about time for us to call it quits for another week. I'll post the transcript in a few minutes. Hope to see everyone again next week. Maybe we can continue this discussion with Lowell next Thursday evening. Goodnight all! FROM: Charles on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:59:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Traction Engineer was another name for Streetcar Engineer FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:58:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks Pat That's Ben FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:57:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat As far as I know they were not regular members of a church. They live all over eastern WA and OR. They live in La Center for a very shot time. By 1889 they lived in Canby OR FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:57:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here are some of the notes about Lowell's kin: Notes Ben's family moved to La Center, Clark Co., Washington Territory, a small town north of Vancouver, Washington, sometime in 1888. On Nov. 6, of 1888 Ben was born. He lived there with his family until sometime about 1889 when they move to Canby, Oregon. Ben was of course listed with the family in the 1900 Census at the Harding Precinct, (Logan) Clackamas Co., farm. Ben (11) along with Louis (13) were attending school. [At the Logan School District? See bio on Mattie] In 1910 he was living with Alma at the Park Place home when the census was taken. He was 21 and was listed as a "Engineer, Traction". I wonder if they ment Tractor, there are pictures with Ben and his brothers when they had a steam tractor with a thrashing machine, Traction is usually associated with interuban and street cars. All though Andrew worked on a interuban in Portland. Ten years 8 01 Jul 2009 Family Group Sheet earlier Theodore had been listed as a "Engineer", steam? In 19__ Ben filled out a WWI Draft Registration Card at Lane Co. Oregon [probably living at Preasent Hill]. [insert image here] Ben was a PVT in the US Army for awhile [lenght not known yet]. The army supplied Ben's head stone, a brass plate. In 1920 Ben was living with Chris and Alma at the upper Pleasent Hill farm and working on the farm. The census was taken in late January so Ben may have been work with the thrashing team during the summer months. He was 31. The reason this may be so is in the 1930 census he was still living with Chris and Alma [ Theodore and Mattie were there also] but his occupation was listed as "Engineer, Sawmill" So he was doing other work besides farming. Their mother, Bertha, had passed away in 1927 while living on the lower Pleasent Hill home [as Rollin remembers]. When Cris died in 1946 Ben and Alma were still living at the upper Pleasent Hill farm, were they lived until they died. [Mattie had passed away the year before]. Ben died Sept. 9, 1971, he was two months shy of 83. A neaghber found him laying ____ and took him to the hospital were he died some days/weeks? later. I remember visting him there, he seemed to be in fairly good spirts. He was always an upbeat person that I can remember. He was buried at the Pleasent Hill Cemetery. ____________________ 5th Co. Ard. Camp Upton, Long Island, New York 25 Nov., 1918 Loyal Legion of Loggers & Lumbermen 13 Mar., 1918 FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:54:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: FYI In Enumclaw WA 40 miles SE of Seattle foot hills it was/is 83 FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:54:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Lowell - Do you know if the family belonged to any church? We have a beautiful large certificate from the church where my husband's grandparents attended church. The certificate is for the birth of his dad in 1906. This was a German church in the Ridgefield area. FROM: Charles on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:51:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: pretty hot in Spokane, but I am in north Idaho next to Twin Lake 76 degree water today FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:51:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: PatB well I may have to live with what I have FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:50:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here is a list of the family Knute Tellefson 1830 Nor Berta 1844 nor theodore 1864 MN Martin 1866 MN John 1868 Mn Christian 1871 MN George 1875 Mn Thea Mattie 1877 Mn Petra 1879 Mn Alma 1884 MN Louis 1886 My grandfather Ben 1888 Wash FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:49:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I thought Tollefson sounded familiar I have a file: Looking for: Ole Tollefson's farm home in Kvam, Gudbrandsdalen, Oppland, Norway LDS FAMILYSEARCH.ORG database includes: Ole Tollefson born: 11 MAR 1835 in Kvam, Gudbrandsdalen, Norway died: 7 Feb 1921 Prairie Farm, Barron County, Wisconsin, USA Married: Gurine Olson, b. 1 Nov. 1846, Bodoe, or Hammerfest, Norway d. 29 APR 1917, Prairie Farm, Barron, WI Children: Frank Davis (Alfred Marius TOLLEFSON) b. 23 Jun 1878 Norway d. 3 Dec 1957 Camas, Clark County, Washington State, USA Married: Ada Loretta Pettijohn: 7 Feb 1910 Walla Walla, WA Other children: 2. Emma Mathilde Tollefson, b. 14 MAR 1882, Lofoten Island, NO 3. Tollef Christian Tollefson, b. 1 Feb 1884, Prairie Farm, Barron Co, WI 4. Engelbregt Tollefson, b. 15 Sept 1886 Prairie Farm, Barron Co, WI 5. ... 6. Anna Christine Tollefson, b. 29 Apr 1889 Prairie Farm, Barron Co, WI FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:49:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening Charles. Are you having our heat wave in Spokane, too? Too hot for comfort here! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:48:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Charles FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:47:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There would have been some newspaper probably in Vancouver, Clark County, WA during that period. A birth would have been listed in the "local news" columns which were in most weekly newspapers at that time. There might have been a newspaper in LaCenter then but none that I've ever heard of. The Reflector (formerly of Ridgefield) wasn't established yet at that time. And it was too early for the Lewis River News at Woodland, WA. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:45:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ancestry.com 1900 Name: Benny A Tollefson Home in 1900: Eureka, Dakota, Minnesota Age: 16 Birth Date: Apr 1884 Birthplace: Minnesota Race: White Ethnicity: American Gender: Male Relationship to Head of House: Servant Father's Birthplace: Norway Mother's Birthplace: Norway Marital Status: Single Residence : Eureka Township, Dakota, Minnesota Occupation: View on Image Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Gunild Severson 69 Sever Severson 43 Isabel Severson 36 Hans Severson 30 Benny A Tollefson 16 Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Eureka, Dakota, Minnesota; Roll T623_761 Page: 1A; Enumeration District: 19. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:44:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ancestry.com Name: Benjamin W Tolefson [Benjamin A Tolefson] Age in 1910: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880 Birthplace: Minnesota Relation to Head of House: Head Father's Birth Place: Norway Mother's Birth Place: Norway Spouse's Name: Edith Home in 1910: Westbrook, Cottonwood, Minnesota Marital Status: Married Race: White Gender: Male Household Members: Name Age Benjamin W Tolefson 30 Edith Tolefson 34 Lloyd E Tolefson 1 Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Westbrook, Cottonwood, Minnesota; Roll T624_692; Page: 3A; Enumeration District: 68; Image: 543. FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:44:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks to Steve.My Genealogy progam will only convert a family group sheet to a .pdf file I will have to manualy make a RTF file. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:43:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: WorldConnect http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tazs _family&id=I55959 # ID: I55959 # Name: Benjamin Tollefson # Sex: M # Birth: APR 1884 in Minnesota HintsAncestry Hints for Benjamin Tollefson 2 possible matches found on Ancestry.com Ancestry.com Father: Osmund Tollefson b: JUL 1844 in Norway Mother: Helen Ostenson b: 7 MAR 1860 in Norway FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:41:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's the surname in MN: 1910 Name: Haleck S Tellefson [Haleck S Tollefson] Age in 1910: 22 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888 Birthplace: Minnesota Relation to Head of House: Son Father's Name: Mathews Father's Birth Place: Norway Mother's Birth Place: Wisconsin Home in 1910: Jackson, Jackson, Minnesota Marital Status: Single Race: White Gender: Male Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Mathews Tellefson 70 Louis Tellefson 25 Haleck S Tellefson 22 Samuel M Tellefson 30 William Tellefson 25 Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Jackson, Jackson, Minnesota; Roll T624_697; Page: 16B; Enumeration District: 101; Image: 70. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:40:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm sending it to Steve. He says he can grab the text out of the file. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:39:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, You could post the file on a webpage, and then it would appear, just as a file name. FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:38:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: To Nancy No my people are from Minnesota, Mower Co. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:37:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I can send this file to Nancy, Jerry and Steve if you want it. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:37:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Is this a relative? 1900 Name: William Tellatson [William Tellefson] Home in 1900: Queens Ward 5, Queens, New York Age: 11 Birth Date: Jul 1888 Birthplace: New York Race: White Ethnicity: American Gender: Male Relationship to Head of House: Son Father's Name: William M Father's Birthplace: New York Mother's Name: Jenney Mother's Birthplace: Vermont Marital Status: Single Residence : New York City, Queens, New York Occupation: View on Image Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age William M Tellatson 53 Jenney Tellatson 44 Mary L Tellatson 19 Sady Tellatson 17 Jenney Tellatson 13 William Tellatson 11 Walter Tellatson 3 Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Queens Ward 5, Queens, New York; Roll T623_1150 Page: 23A; Enumeration District: 689. FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:36:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: What about newspapers that may cover La Center events? FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:36:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rosalie forwarded the file to me but I can't convert a PDF file to post here. If you could send the same thing to me in Word or WordPerfect, I can do a cut and paste and post it here. Even a text file would work. I don't have time to retype the huge file for entry right now. FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:35:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: An e-mail from Patrica Mckee Bauer just came in FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:34:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I doubt there will be any official records for that time. I believe the Clark County Court House burned in 1890. The birth records when my dad was born in 1898 in Vancouver consisted of a one-line entry in a ledger book. His name, his dad's name, his mother's name and maybe a couple of other short entries. Not much. FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:34:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have sent a family group sheet to Rosalie Kepler this morn FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:32:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: In La Center Cark County Washington FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:31:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Offical birth records. I have my uncles birth data from Obit and family records but no registers or civil records. Benjaman Tellefson born 6 Nov 1888. Any suggestions? FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:30:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Lowell FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:30:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Lowell! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:29:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Lowell - I just sent you an e-mail to find out more details from you before posting your info here. What kind of info are you trying to find on your kin? FROM: Lowell Tuttle on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:28:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Lowell here. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:28:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: A bunch of NEUMEIERs: First name Last name Occupation Age Sex Arrived Ship Origin (Port) Origin (Ctry) Origin (Prov) Origin (Town) GEORG NEUMEIER INFANT 9 m M 12 Aug 1880 HERMAN BREMEN GERMANY BAVARIA U GEORG NEUMEIER LABORER 33 M 12 Aug 1880 HERMAN BREMEN GERMANY BAVARIA U MONIKA NEUMEIER UNKNOWN 32 F 12 Aug 1880 HERMAN BREMEN GERMANY BAVARIA U MARIA NEUMEIER UNKNOWN 4 F 12 Aug 1880 HERMAN BREMEN GERMANY BAVARIA U ANT. NEUMEIER BUTCHER 21 M 26 Sep 1883 HERMANN BREMEN GERMANY NOT AVAILABLE U FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:21:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: You, too, Judy FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:20:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks Joy. I don't have acess to place to order but SIL does, so will ask her to do that research. Have a great 4th FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:19:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good Night, Jim FROM: Jim on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:18:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Enjoy the July 4th weekend. I'm going to sign-off for tonight. Good night to all. FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:17:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: You can also search here... but they are currently undergoing regularly scheduled maintenance: http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/naturalization/#online FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:15:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The roll number for Neumeier is 131 N-550 E. G. through O-166 FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:12:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: In addition, there are three National Archives microfilm publications that serve as indexes to some State and local court naturalizations in Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont. •M1285. Soundex Index to Naturalization Petitions for the United States District and Circuit Courts, Northern District of Illinois, and Immigration and Naturalization Service District 9, 1840-1950 (179 rolls). This serves both as an index to naturalization petitions from the two Federal courts mentioned in its title and as an index to naturalization petitions filed in county courts in eastern Iowa, northwestern Indiana, eastern Wisconsin, and northern Illinois. Specifically, the following counties are included: Illinois counties: Boone, Bureau, Carroll, Champaign, Cook, DeKalb, DuPage, Ford, Fulton, Grundy, Henderson, Henry, Iroquois, Jo Daviess, Kane, Kankakee, Kendall, Knox, Lake, LaSalle, Lee, Livingston, Marshall, McHenry, McLean, Mercer, Ogle, Peoria, Putnam, Rock Island, Stark, Stephenson, Tazewell, Vermilion, Warren, Whiteside, Will, Winnebago, and Woodford. Indiana counties: Benton, Fulton, Jasper, Lake, LaPorte, Marshall, Newton, Porter, Pulaski, St. Joseph, and Starks. Iowa counties: Allamakee, Appanoose, Benton, Black Hawk, Bremer, Buchanan, Butler, Cedar, Chickasaw, Clayton, Clinton, Davis, Delaware, Des Moines, Dubuque, Fayette, Floyd, Grundy, Hardin, Henry, Howard, Iowa, Jackson, Jefferson, Johnson, Jones, Keokuk, Lee, Linn, Louisa, Mahaska, Mitchell, Monroe, Muscatine, Scott, Tama, Van Burean, Wapello, Washington, and Winneshiek. FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:12:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Must have been some adventure for those girls to leave Alsace region go all the way to Iowa and then travel back. Would love to find passenger list, ship they traveled but sister in law check LDS records and they were destroyed for that time period... FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:09:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy - kids were much older at that age then. FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:07:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry, Probably Tama County, IA Large German population. Cute story. Family sent 2 daughters, 15 and 16 to America "to check it out". Girls said to move to America and they did..mom dad and 12 children! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:06:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Now I know why we stay in Clark County, Washington, Jim. We've traveled some and have thought some places would make a nice home for us but then we come back to our (usually) moderate climate and know we've got it the best here! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:06:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: But do miss the great Mexican food (;>) FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:05:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jim - I moved here from Texas and do not miss that humidity! FROM: Jim on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:03:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I was in a meeting with some fellows from Huston on Tuesday. They said it had been over 100 for the previous 6 days with high humidity. At night it might drop as low as 79! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:03:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I had forgotten about your elevation there. It would make a difference. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:01:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Of course here at 6,500 feet it get nice and cool at night. Temp drops fast once the sun goes down. usually in the mid 50s over night. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:00:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: We lived without A/C for many years but, after having it for the past 16 1/2 years, we don't know how we would survive without it now! FROM: Jim on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:58:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It was 99 deg. both days last weekend. It has been cooler so far this week. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:58:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat - it has been mid to upper 80s here. No A/C at my house. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:57:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Jim - I hope you don't have our heat wave down there in California. It's too hot for comfort here! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:57:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jim! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:57:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: From the Genweb lookups: John Dalby will do lookups in an extensive database and list of publications. Database features. at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mnblueea/wlookups.htm FROM: Jim on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:57:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening to all. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:57:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jim. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:56:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry, More about the Dalby database at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mnrice/dalby.htm FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:55:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: What county Judy? FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:54:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy, surname is Neumeier. Carl Christian Ludwig, Carl Fredrick Wilhelm, and the list goes on FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:54:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy - I will have to do some looking at that site. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:52:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I sent Anna my e-mail address. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:51:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry, I just found lots of HAGGARD names in a database on the Blue Earth MN Genweb: http://www.dalbydata.com/user.php?action=cemsearchresults FROM: Anna Duncan on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:51:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have never used a chat room before so how do I get back to you if I find the information? FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:51:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy, what is the name? FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:48:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Any hints on getting naturalization papers for Iowa? Have family who came about 1883 and census says there were naturalized but documents have never turned up in the family. FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:47:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oops. That should have been 1922 and 1924 for the marriages of Mabel D FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:46:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Anna, we determined there were two different Mabel Vickerman's in Moody county in the 1920s. One was Mabel Quan or Quam. She married William D Vickerman in 1914. And them Married Thomas Laerr in 1924. This is NOT the Mabel that Bud is looking for. The second Mabel is Mabel D Vickerman (daughter of Thomas H and Mabel Vickerman). She married Ralph C Henifin in 1924, and then Lester Somers in 1926. Bud is trying to find out if Mabel and Ralph might have had a child. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:43:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Anna - would there be divorce records for Moody Co. in 1923/24? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:42:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy, Glad to hear the report from the East! Wow! We just finished our remodel. Maybe you'll have photos of baby and remodel? FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:41:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I wonder if Bud can find any divorce records to help him. If there was a child from that first marriage for his dad, the child would be mentioned in the records. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:41:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy - that makes sense. I have one reference that my ggrandfather worked for the railroad at that time. FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:40:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry, Search at the Minnesota Historical Society for Winnebago Agency http://www.mnhs.org/index.htm FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:39:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Anna - each week we invite someone to present a brick wall. We spend the week researching the question and come here on Thursdays to presnet our findings and to further discuss the question. FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:38:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Your search for Winnebago Agency post office in Blue Earth County returned the following: Blue Earth County ST. CLAIR, a city located on the LeSueur River section 8 in McPherson Township, was a railway terminal village, on the site of the old Winnebago Agency, where after the removal of the Indians, a village named Hilton was platted on land of Aaron Hilton in 1865. Its name was changed to St. Clair by officers of the Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul Railroad. The post office was formerly named Winnebago Agency from 1856 to 1886, when it was changed to St. Clair. Hilton had a sawmill there until 1884; the village had a railroad station, a grain elevator, and a steam flour mill, exporting flour and wheat. The village was incorporated in 1907. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:36:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Bud Henifin sent us the brickwall project for this week. This is what he said: BRICKWALL PROJECT: This is a continuation of the project from last week: Eugene "Bud" Henifin said: "A while back I was doing some searching n the Henifin family and I ran across a real surprise, I found that my dad had been married prior to marrying my mother. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I have a copy of the marriage license. He married a Mabel D. Vickerman May 23, 1922, divorced a year later as she married Lester Frank Somers August 1, 1924. I tried to find out if they had any children but have had no success. They were married in Lake county Madisdon South Dakota. She married Somers who lived in Chamberlaid , Burel County, she had residence Coleman Moody County this was in South Dakota, not sure of the spelling hard to read on the marriage license They were both 21. Listed as 21 when she married Somers, my dad and Mable must have been 19 when they married--makes me wonder if they had a child? Thomas Laerr & Mabel Vickerman married April 3, 1924, Miinnehaha County Souix Falls south Dakota Registration # 36-477 Lester Frank Somers & Mabel D Vickerman married Aaugust 1, 1924 Hamlin County, County of residence Burel I have been thinking a lot about this situation and wonder, could this be two different Mabels?, it seems unlikely as all this took place in the same small State of South Dakota.. If the DOB is correct then she would have been 27 in 1930, not 33 If the age of her son is 14 as indicated in 1930 census he would have been born in 1916 and she would have been 13. Something has to be wrong . I used the following figures to come to my conclusion 1930 Census shows age as 33, subtract 33 from 1930 and that would give DOB as 1897 1930 census subtract her 1903 DOB from that would make her 27 not 33 1930 census subtract her sons age of 14 from 1930 would give him a DOB of 1916 If sons DOB is 1916 and her DOB is correct as 1903 she would have been 13 when he was born..... This sure makes one scratch their head in wonder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:36:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy, saw that cutie grandbaby last week. Malaura busy with a remodel of her facility. FROM: Anna Duncan on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:34:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: How is the problem related to Moody County? FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:34:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Evening from Poulsbo. Lovely, lovely sunshine. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:34:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Welcome to Clark County, Washington, Anna. We've been online with the chat room for about 10 years now. FROM: Curtis Wangen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:32:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gotta go folks. Family calls... Have a happy and safe Independence Day holiday! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:32:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It has been a couple of years since I searched for Winnebago Indian Agency info. Maybe it is time to revisit the subject. FROM: Anna Duncan on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:31:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I am affiliate coordinator for the state of South Dakota and am President of Moody County Genealogical Society. I am willing to do research for this area. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:30:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Judy FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:30:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Judy! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:30:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Sumner C. Hilton built a flouring mill at the Winnebago Agency: in Google Books Collections of the Minnesota Historical Society By Minnesota Historical Society Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=Owht9Q0LSqcC&pg=PA330&lpg=PA330&dq=%22w innebago+indian+agency%22+minnesota&source=bl&ots=D0XRCIqMTI&sig=RGEs2bi pAM1xSOH90Ks7hAKdYwo&hl=en&ei=YGtNSq7oLZDwlAf9x7SoBQ&sa=X&oi=book_r esult&ct=result&resnum=6 FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:30:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Judy FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:29:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Goodnight Marge - see you next week. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:29:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Bye Marge - Happy 4th. FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:28:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gosh... must leave to get my closing chores done. Hope you all have a wonderful holiday! See ya next time... nite FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:27:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Marge - No Boston in me - striclty west coast. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:24:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Many of the historical records of the Winnebago Agency have been transferred to the Central Plains Regional Archives of the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) in Kansas City[1]. Records from earlier agencies associated with the Winnebago Agency -- notably the Omaha, Ponca and Santee Sioux Agencies -- are also in this collection of records, sometimes identified under the former name FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:24:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry: Betty says they could have been one of the many white employees who worked at the Agency FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:24:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: As early as 1845, Long Prairie was the site of the Winnebago Indian Agency. The Winnebago Indians were brought here to serve as a buffer between the Dakota and the Ojibway nations. The Agency continued to operate in Todd County until the mid-1850's when the Winnebago Indians were relocated to the Blue Earth area. http://www.co.todd.mn.us/HTML_Files/Departments/departments_h istory.html FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:23:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Letters received by the Office of Indian Affairs from the Winnebago Agency, 1826-1875, have been microfilmed by the National Archives as part of their Microcopy Number M234[1]. Copies are available at the National Archives and at the Family History Library and its family history centers on their microfilm roll numbers 1661661 thru 1661677. This correspondence includes that of the predecessors of the Winnebago Agency in Nebraska. The file heading for this collection often refers to the tribe rather than the correspondence of a particular agency. Other correspondence regarding the Winnebago Indians will also be found under the Pairie du Chien Agency. https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Winnebago_Indian_Agency_( Nebraska) FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:23:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry: you wrote it the way it'd sound if you had a serious Boston accent FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:23:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Marge, I have no idea why they woulld have gone there. Neither were of NA ancestry that i know of. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:22:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Marge that is. FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:21:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry: we have TONS of First People resources here at the SIGS library, but not much re: the Winnebago Indian Agency (per Miss Betty, our Native American expert) FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:19:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Mage - according to a deposition my ggrandmother gave for her Civil War Pension application they lived at the Winnebago Indian Agency, Blue Earth County. I have not been able to find much information on that place. FROM: Curtis Wangen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:16:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: John A. Vickerman's brothers (George Thomas and Raymond Edmund) also raised families in Murray and/or Lyon Counties during that same time period. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:16:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Only one Vickerman family in Lyon County in the 1920 Census (Series: T625 Roll: 843 Page: 144). Charles C., 41, b. MN Alice, 36, b. MN 6 children The birth state for the older 4 children is IA. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:14:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Anna, What are you researching this evening? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:13:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: WorldConnect at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=dunn loeppcuster&id=I7223 # ID: I7223 # Name: John Asel VICKERMAN # Given Name: John Asel # Surname: VICKERMAN # Change Date: 7 Sep 2005 # Birth: 13 JAN 1881 in Minnesota # Death: 27 OCT 1963 in Lyon County, Minnesota Father: Thomas Basil VICKERMAN b: 2 APR 1855 in Canada Mother: Martha WINCH b: 18 FEB 1861 in Minnesota Marriage 1 Myrtle Henrietta REINERT b: 2 NOV 1893 * Married: Children 1. Ella Lillian VICKERMAN b: 5 DEC 1923 2. Virginia VICKERMAN b: 8 APR 1927 FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:12:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I tried following up by searching the two cemeteries in Minnehaha County, but neither seems to have full transcripts on-line. FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:11:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry T - WHERE in Blue Earth Co did your ancestrals live? One of my fellow workers here at the library has ties to Blue Earth Co FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:10:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1900 census, Shetek twp, Minnesota. Vickerman, Thomas, Head, white, male, born April 1856, age 44, married 20 years, born Canada, father born England, mother born Canada, Farmer ", Martha, Wife, white, female, born Feb 1861, age 39, married 20 years, born Minnesota, father born New York, mother born Ireland, Farmer ", John A, son , white, male, born Jan 1881, age 19, single, born Minnesota, father born Canada , mother born Minnesota, Farm Labor " Hannah E, Daur, white, female, born June 1882, age 17 , single, born Minnesota, father born Canada , mother born Minnesota, Farm Labor ", George T, son, white, male, born June 1887, age 12, single, born Minnesota, father born Canada , mother born Minnesota, Farm Labor ", Ray E, son, white, male, born Jan 1896, age 4, single, born Minnesota, father born Canada , mother born Minnesota Gerald F, son, white, male, born Mar 1900, age 2 mos, single, born Minnesota, father born Canada , mother born Minnesota http://www.legacyfamilytree.ca/Anderson/3640.htm FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:10:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: And neither Lester Somers or Ralph Henifin (Henefin) are listed FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:09:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm not having any luck with the 1925 SD census. The images are cards with info about the person, but there is no relationships listed to other people. There are two Somers listed as born 1925, one is Mildred, one is Wesley, but I can't read what county they are in... very faded FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:09:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's one in Murray County: Name: John A Vickerman Home in 1930: Shetck, Murray, Minnesota View Map Age: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882 Birthplace: Minnesota Relation to Head of House: Head Spouse's Name: Myrtle E Race: White Household Members: Name Age John A Vickerman 48 Myrtle E Vickerman 36 Ella L Vickerman 6 Virginia M Vickerman 2 11/12 John Vickerman 1 3/12 Vernon Downs 19 Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Shetck, Murray, Minnesota; Roll 1107; Page: 3B; Enumeration District: 26; Image: 1047.0. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:07:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: http://www.leg.state.mn.us/legdb/fulldetail.asp?ID=10688 says he was born in Lyon County, so perhaps the 1930 census would show his family (but not him since he was born a year later). FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:04:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Steve's page says: Vickerman was raised in a Minnesota farm family in Murray County. His father was involved in local township government throughout most of the senator's childhood. This early exposure carved a path for Vickerman's second career in politics FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:03:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy - it sounds as if Grandpa had it made! He had a cook and a maid. What more could he want? ;-) FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:02:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Interesting that the WorldConnect database lists my Mom, and a new link to Ancestry.com says found in 1920 census: Name: Winifred E Henry Birth: abt 1916 - Washington Residence: 1920 - East Hamilton, Skagit, Washington FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:02:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Vickerman FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:56:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy - it looks like our ancestors crossed paths more than once. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:55:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My g-grandmother: Sarah (Sadie) Emilla Mathews # Birth: 27 JUN 1856 in Eagle Lake, Blue Earth Co., Minnesota # Death: 23 JUL 1932 in Eugene, Lane Co., Oregon # Note: April 24, 1887 residence Eagle Lake, Minn. In letter mentions "Grandpa lives down here all alone. I do his washing, milking, bake bread, make his butter and go down once a week and clean up for him. He seems to be quite happy." FROM: Curtis Wangen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:54:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Does anyone have knowldge of a family link to MN Senator Jim Vickerman? I do not know him personally, but he is from southwestern MN which was home for many Vickermans in the late 1800's and beyond. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:54:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: So are you descended from Wm. I. and Margaret Vickerman who are listed in the 1880 census? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:54:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My mother's mother: Laura Mabel Haggard # Birth: ABT 1879 in Eagle Lake, Blue Earth Co., Minnesota # Death: in Lane, Oregon FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:53:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My ggrandmother wrot : By the advice of Dr. Lemon (William M. and Dr. Clark we moved to Minnesota for my husband's health and settled at the Winnebago Indian Agency, Blue Earth County and only staid there until June 1867 when we moved to Ravanna, Mercer Co. MO and went on a farm. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:53:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Joy - we have a visitor from Minnesota tonight - along with Jerry from Colorado - so the US is pretty well covered. Soon our California friends should be popping in, too. At least it's cool sitting here under the A/C! FROM: Curtis Wangen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:51:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Steve, I also received the note from Bud Henifin regarding his father's brief marriage to Mabel D. Vickerman. That was the first I had heard of it and I am not aware of any offspring from the marriage. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:51:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My ggrandparents lived in Blue Earth Co. MN for a time. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:50:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My husband's great grandmother was born in the Willmar, MN area. We traveled back there several years ago and thought the country was beautiful. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:49:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Marge FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:49:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Curtis: There are a lot of postings below, so you may want to take a moment to read them. Basically, Bud Henifin's father was married for a year to Mabel D. Vickerman in the mid-1920's, a fact he did not know until recently. I imagine that he is curious if he might have a half-brother or half-sister somewhere. Based on what we have found so far, however, that sounds doubtful. FROM: MissMarge-SIGS on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:49:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi, Miss Pat FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:48:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Marge - FROM: Curtis Wangen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:47:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: All - I am in Minnesota and have had the opportunity to do some hands-on work in the Fillmore County Gen. archives. I am always looking for more info on my Vickerman family in other MN and SD counties plus Canada. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:47:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm really thankful for A/C these days. I think it hit 97 here today. I noticed one maple tree that is already starting to get red leaves. I wonder if the weather will have everything so fouled up that winter will come early this year?? FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:46:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening Nancy. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:46:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi folks! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:45:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Nancy FROM: Curtis Wangen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:45:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Stev - thanks for inviting me. I took a few minutes after receiving the note to look at the last discussion and compare some of the comments to my info. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:45:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: If you will enter a query in the space below, we'll see if someone here can help you. Are you from the Vancouver area? FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:44:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It seems that web designers are getting more complicated making things run slowly or not at all FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:44:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Curtis: I'm glad you got my email about joining in on the Vickerman search. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:44:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Curtis - what can we do to help you this evening? FROM: Curtis Wangen on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:44:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Greetings, all! I'm the newbie to this forum... FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:43:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I still have those 1880 census CDs. I haven't tried to use them for a long time - should do that someday maybe when there's enough time! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:43:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Curtis FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:42:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm glad to see that Joy was in here. We missed her last week! FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:42:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: When it first came out, I bought a copy of the 1880 Census CD set from the LDS church. I could never get their reader to work properly (even after a lengthy exchange with their tech folks), so they refunded my money. My preference would have been for them to just fix their software. Their new website appears to exhibit that same lack of adequate software functionality. It would be nice if they were a bit more generic in the design. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:40:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi everyone. I tried to go to that site and I'm using Google so it won't work. It says my browser isn't supported. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:39:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Pat. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:38:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That site does not recognze that I have flash player, so it does not work for me either. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 1:35:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Steve FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 0:59:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Has anyone checked the 1925 South Dakota census (at http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=allCollection s;r=0)? I cannot get that link to operate correctly since it requires Flash (which is not available for my operating system). FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 0:55:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Bud: If Ralph Henifin and Mabel D. Vickerman did have any children during their brief marriage, then we should be able to find that child living with one or the other of the parents in the 1930 census, or perhaps in a cemetery if the child died before 1930. The 2 children listed with Ralph and Gardia Henifin in the 1930 Census were both born between 1926 and 1929. The 2 children listed with Lester and Mabel Somers in the 1930 Census were both born after 1925. The 2 Vickerman burials shown in the SD State Archives' database (although we do not know the ages) both were in Minnehaha County where the "other" Mabel Vickerman resided with her husband, Thomas Laerr. One other remote possibility exists, that of a possible Henifin-Vickerman child being an orphan. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 0:40:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Doing a Cemetery Record Search at the South Dakota State Archives website (http://apps.sd.gov/applications/DT58Cemetery/Default.aspx), displays these Vickerman records: First Name Last Name Death Date Lot Number Block Number City County Cemetery Name BONNIE VICKERMAN 519 SIOUX FALLS MINNEHAHA WOODLAWN DOROTHY VICKERMAN 1926 3 1 HARTFORD MINNEHAHA HARTFORD FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 0:35:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I've invited 3 Vickerman researchers from the RootsWeb Surname List to join our GenChat session this evening. Hope they are able to make it. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 0:33:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry: Yes, I saw the Moody County birth records and suspected that the Vickerman brothers married the Ladue sisters, but didn't want to complicate the brick wall results that much. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 3:01:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Cousins: Birth Information for GRAYDON VICKERMAN (State File Number: 649218) File Date: 12/10/1943 Sex: Male Birth Date: 05/03/1901 City/County: MOODY Mother's Name: LULU LADUE Father's Name: WILLIAM VICKERMAN Birth Information for FLOYD VICKERMAN (State File Number: 10679) File Date: 08/01/1906 Sex: Male Birth Date: 07/07/1906 City/County: MOODY Mother's Name: LULU LADUE Father's Name: WILL VICKERMAN FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:51:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Birth Information for THOMAS VICKERMAN (State File Number: 10680) File Date: 08/01/1906 Sex: Male Birth Date: 06/22/1906 City/County: MOODY Mother's Name: MARY LADUE Father's Name: THOMAS VICKERMAN FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:39:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Name: Thomas H Vickerman Certificate Number: 246137 Death Day: 26 Death Month: Feb Death Year: 1949 County: Minnehaha FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:32:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here is Mable's sister Arla (Arlie) marriage: Name: Arla Vickerman Age: 23 Gender: Female Spouse: Cameron A Rinegar Marriage Date: 28 Nov 1923 Marriage County: Hand County of Residence: Mordy Post Office: Coleman FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 2:30:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looks like Ladue sisters married Vickerman brothers: Name: Graydon Deloyd Vickerman Birth Date: 3 May 1901 Gender: Male County: Moody Father's Name: William I Vickerman Mother's Name: Lulu Bette Ladue File Date: 10 Dec 1943 State File Number: 649218 FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 0:34:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1880 Census at FamilySearch.org shows Thomas H. Vickerman in this household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Race Age Birthplace Occupation Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace Wm. I. VICKERMAN Self M Male W 35 CANADA Farmer ENGLAND ENGLAND Margaret VICKERMAN Wife M Female W 27 CANADA Housekeeper CANADA SCOTLAND Thomas H. VICKERMAN Son S Male W 12 MN At School CANADA CANADA Rose M. VICKERMAN Dau S Female W 7 MN At School CANADA CANADA William T. VICKERMAN Son S Male W 3 MN At School CANADA CANADA Hannah M. VICKERMAN Dau S Female W 2 MN CANADA CANADA Charles A. VICKERMAN Son S Male W 7M MN CANADA CANADA Source Information: Census Place Rose Dell, Rock, Minnesota Family History Library Film 1254632 NA Film Number T9-0632 Page Number 439A FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 2, 2009 0:19:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: This is Mabel's older brother, shown as Lisle Vickerman (1) in 1900 and as L??le C Wickerman (11) in 1910: Birth Information for LISLE VICKERMAN (State File Number: 794365) File Date: 04/07/1965 Sex: Male Birth Date: 09/10/1898 City/County: MOODY Mother's Name: MABEL LADUE Father's Name: THOMAS VICKERMAN Source: http://apps.sd.gov/applications/PH14Over100BirthRec/index.asp website. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 1, 2009 23:34:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thomas was also a Mail Carrier in 1910. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 1, 2009 23:31:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That 1910 census image reads as "Wickerman" on the HQ image (Series: T624 Roll: 1486 Page: 185). FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 1, 2009 23:26:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1910 United States Federal Census about Mabel Wicherman Name: Mabel Wicherman [Mabel Wickerman] Age in 1910: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873 Birthplace: Illinois Relation to Head of House: Wife Father's Birth Place: New York Mother's Birth Place: Illinois Spouse's Name: Thomas Home in 1910: Colman, Moody, South Dakota Marital Status: Married Race: White Gender: Female Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Thomas Wicherman 41 Mabel Wicherman 37 William Wicherman 17 Leonard L Wicherman 16 Vernon L Wicherman 19 L??Le C Wicherman 11 Arlie M Wicherman 9 Mabel D Wicherman 7 Ray T Wicherman 3 Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Colman, Moody, South Dakota; Roll T624_1486; Page: 11A; Enumeration District: 352; Image: 371. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 1, 2009 23:16:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: They also show up in 1900 in Moody County, but I have not yet found them in 1910. FROM: Steve on DATE-Jul 1, 2009 23:14:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1920 Census, Colman, Moody County, SD (Series: T625 Roll: 1720 Page: 196) has a Vickerman family: Thomas H., head, M, W, 51, b. MN, occup: Mail Carier Mabel, wife, F, W, 47, b. IL 4 sons and 2 daughters at home including: Mabel D., daughter, F, W, 16, b. SD FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 1, 2009 23:05:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There is a family tree on ancestry that shows Lester and Mabel's family: Dolores Lorraine Somers born 27 Sep 1924 Joseph Lester Somers born 19 Oct 1925 in Casper, Natrona, Wyoming, d. 20 Dec 1988 in Las Vegas, Clark, Nevada It shows Lester Frank Somers b. 20 Jul 1902, Chamberlain, Brule, SD; died about May 1952 in Las Vegas, Clark, Nevada Mabel is shown as Mabel Delores Vickerman, b. 12 Mar 1903 in Colman, Moody, SD, died about Nov 1972 in Las Vegas, Clark, Nevada Poor Ancestry.com transcription strikes again: 1930 United States Federal Census about Cater F Somers Name: Cater F Somers Home in 1930: Brule, Brule, South Dakota View Map Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1904 Birthplace: South Dakota Relation to Head of House: Head Spouse's Name: Mable B Race: White Household Members: Name Age Cater F Somers 26 Mable B Somers 27 Delores L Somers 5 Joseph L Somers 4 5/12 The image says Lester F Somers, not Cater. Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Brule, Brule, South Dakota; Roll 2219; Page: 1A; Enumeration District: 2; Image: 327.0. With Dolores L Somers' birth date being 27 Sep 1924, and Lester and Mabel marrying 1 Aug 1924 -- if the dates are accurate, Mabel was pregnant and it would be possible that either man was the father. FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 1, 2009 22:47:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: For the Mabel who married Thomas Laerr. Her maiden name was Quan or Quam. She married William D Vickerman in 1914, which is how she became Vickerman 1930 United States Federal Census about Thomas Laere Name: Thomas Laere Home in 1930: Colman, Moody, South Dakota View Map Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893 Birthplace: South Dakota Relation to Head of House: Head Spouse's Name: Mabel V Race: White Household Members: Name Age Thomas Laere 37 Mabel V Laere 33 Darrell Vickerman 14 (listed as a stepson) Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Colman, Moody, South Dakota; Roll 2229; Page: 3A; Enumeration District: 4; Image: 35.0. If Darrell Vickerman is a step son to Thomas, he had to be from a previous marriage of mother Mabel to a Vickerman or born out of wedlock and took his mother's surname if she was Vickerman South Dakota Marriages has Wm D Vickerman marrying Mabel Quam on 15 Aug 1914 in Moody. County of Residence: Moody Record shows he was 21 and listed as Divorced. Mabel is listed as 19 and a maiden. 1920 United States Federal Census about William D Vickerman Name: William D Vickerman Home in 1920: Colman, Moody, South Dakota Age: 26 years Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894 Birthplace: Minnesota Relation to Head of House: Brother-in-law Father's Birth Place: Minnesota Mother's Birth Place: Illinois Marital Status: Married Race: White Sex: Male Able to read: Yes Able to Write: Yes Image: 403 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age George O Quan 29 Head Josephine Tuttle 22 sister Dale R Tuttle 4 9/12 nephew Duane L Tuttle 3 6/12 nephew William D Vickerman 26 Bro.in law Virginia M Vickerman 24 Sister Darrell W Vickerman 4 2/12 Nephew Source Citation: Year: 1920;Census Place: Colman, Moody, South Dakota; Roll T625_1720; Page: 6A; Enumeration District: 209; Image: 403. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jun 27, 2009 18:40:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Just checking to see if this stayed posted. Hope we don't have any gremlins this week! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jun 26, 2009 13:10:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Just checking to see if this posted. It's looking good. See you Thursday evening. FROM: Nancy & Pat on DATE-Jun 26, 2009 13:09:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy Elder Petersen and Patricia McKee Bauer, along with several regular visitors, will be staffing the GenChat room beginning about 6:45 p.m. Thursday evening. We close the door about 9:00 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. We have visitors who will give you a willing helping hand with your genealogy brick walls. You can enter questions or answers at any time but we hope you will be able to join us when we are open for discussions. BRICKWALL PROJECT: This is a continuation of the project from last week: Eugene "Bud" Henifin said: "A while back I was doing some searching n the Henifin family and I ran across a real surprise, I found that my dad had been married prior to marrying my mother. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I have a copy of the marriage license. He married a Mabel D. Vickerman May 23, 1922, divorced a year later as she married Lester Frank Somers August 1, 1924. I tried to find out if they had any children but have had no success. They were married in Lake county Madisdon South Dakota. She married Somers who lived in Chamberlaid , Burel County, she had residence Coleman Moody County this was in South Dakota, not sure of the spelling hard to read on the marriage license They were both 21. Listed as 21 when she married Somers, my dad and Mable must have been 19 when they married--makes me wonder if they had a child? Thomas Laerr & Mabel Vickerman married April 3, 1924, Miinnehaha County Souix Falls south Dakota Registration # 36-477 Lester Frank Somers & Mabel D Vickerman married Aaugust 1, 1924 Hamlin County, County of residence Burel I have been thinking a lot about this situation and wonder, could this be two different Mabels?, it seems unlikely as all this took place in the same small State of South Dakota.. If the DOB is correct then she would have been 27 in 1930, not 33 If the age of her son is 14 as indicated in 1930 census he would have been born in 1916 and she would have been 13. Something has to be wrong . I used the following figures to come to my conclusion 1930 Census shows age as 33, subtract 33 from 1930 and that would give DOB as 1897 1930 census subtract her 1903 DOB from that would make her 27 not 33 1930 census subtract her sons age of 14 from 1930 would give him a DOB of 1916 If sons DOB is 1916 and her DOB is correct as 1903 she would have been 13 when he was born..... This sure makes one scratch their head in wonder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Please click on the "log-out" button (lower right) before you leave. Meanwhile, you can see our past transcripts with the link below: Past transcripts: www.rootsweb.com/~waccgs/p3424.htm