July 9, 2009 Remember to begin reading this transcript from the bottom to the top! FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:59:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: how lucky you all are to be getting these wonderful files and pics.. I envy you. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:59:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gnight all! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:59:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, That was very motivating to find out more! Thanks again! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:58:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It looks like it's about time to call it quits for another week. It's been fun. I'll post more info next time about my grandmother Belden. Maybe someone can find out something. I do have some dates. See you next week everyone! Goodnight now. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:57:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: thanks everyone, I enjoyed meeting you. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:57:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: All: Just couldn't resist sharing the photo. Our first horseshow weekend. Make it to two shows.. She did great. Couldn't reach the stirrups in the saddle I bought the older kids, so we restored the one her daddy used 38 year ago. It looked great! Now that's family history! Pat: do you know htat tribe? there is so much more available now, maye we can help you.. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:57:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: One of my PA researchers just sent me 10 Meg of photos to go with that query I was working on -- for the PA ELDER he's trying to find. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:56:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: sorry charles, I was reading Nancy's elder post and typed your name.... FROM: Charles on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:56:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: my grandfather and 4 of his brothers came one at a time just before they were to be drafted all settled for a while in Austin, Minnesota and 4 brothers never left Minnesota, just my grandfather moved west first to Montana and later to North Idaho FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:56:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My 7th great grandfather was supposedly married to an Indian woman. She was slain by Indians at age 47 in Massachusetts. She was my 7th great grandmother. They were married about 1754. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:56:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, Thanks, I'll review notes and get going with that search, too! FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:56:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good night everyone FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:55:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Thanks for quickly posting the photo! That was a crowning glory for the evening! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:55:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gnight Jerry! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:54:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, That kind of "elder" does cause big headaches, tho, in the PA Presbyterian searches! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:54:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I gotta go. see you all next week. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:54:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Great picture! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:54:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Charles, Yes, my husband's PETERSEN was Danish, and they were brought to USA on a Mormon ship. Found them easily in LDS, first child born here was Lionel Brigham PETERSEN. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:53:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm the "elder" in our family but I guess that doesn't make me part of the clan! ;-) FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:53:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: have you checked the hicks site for elders, there are quite a few mentioned with lineage into the cherokee line all the way thru moytoy ca 1650 http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-V A/BOOK-0001/0033-0321.html FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:53:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Everyone: Here is something I want to remind you of.. the Cherokees were one of the first Native American cultures to accept intermarriage. This took place in colonial times. You would be amazed at how far reaching these pedigrees have come. Also that there are very few full bloods in existence. Chief John Ross was only 1/8 Cherokee, and he was their chief for 40 years, during the most turbulent times in their history. The British encouraged intermarriage between their traders, superintendants, etc., for political purposes - to cement allies.. that's why there are so many mixed blood Cherokees today, and many do not even know it. Everyone: the granddaughter is a scream isn't she? I love the fangs.. Long after I'm gone, she will show this picture to her own children... FROM: Charles on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:52:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I wrote a book in my family about 10 years ago and it is Danish, Danish records are easy to follow once you find the parish for your ancestor FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:51:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, I haven't looked on Footnote for the ELDERS and Cherokee databases. This should motivate me! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:50:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, Thanks, I do recognize that one! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:50:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Wow! That's a photo for posterity! FROM: Charles on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:50:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Elder? I do not have any Elders FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:50:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: She's adorable! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:49:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Charles, You could find someone eventually with a nice genealogy all written. It might be in Norwegian, etc? FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:49:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Isn't she precious... FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:49:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: yes the haplogroup is C FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:49:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's that pretty little girl! FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:49:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: nancy, did you check the applications FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:48:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, Did you mention the Haplogroup? FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:48:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Charles, I think your Elder line went into the nancy ward line and mine does too. I will get more info. Might even find some in applications on footnotes FROM: Charles on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:48:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: well my Hansen line is very short my grandfather was Anton Hansen, his Father Hans Mikkelsen, his father Mikkel Madsen and each generation changes so which surname do I look for? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:46:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, I have a Footnotes subscription, too, with webpages at http://www.footnote.com/pages_all_recent/NancyElderPetersen FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:46:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn's grandaughter is just precious.. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:45:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Charles, Our ELDER DNA group was very mixed up in all the histories, especially in PA, but also VA and SC. Then we found ELDERS variation as Cherokees, so that's another mystery to solve! FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:45:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: on footnotes.com, you can use my id and pass if you want, nrmmj pass is hasles FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:44:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: anyline in our tree that has female direct ancestor. this may or may not be true, but it has worked for me for three different lines so far FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:43:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi charles, I think that is the advantage that MtDNA has over y, ours will match any line. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:42:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat: I sent it to you at pacifier.. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:41:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: go to Footnotes.com, all the Eastern Cherokee Applications are there, 100% FROM: Charles on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:41:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have pretty much ignored DNA since I have my male line back to the 1500s and I don't think DNA will help any more FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:41:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Charles. Welcome! FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:40:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think I put the spinks on there but no one else has FROM: Charles on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:39:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jerry, Nancy and Pat FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:39:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Charles, We've been having lots of fun with DNA and Cherokee paper trails this evening, thanks to Rita Jones and Carolyn! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:38:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Charles - nice to see you this evening. Are you home from the lake now? FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:38:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Charles FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:38:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I am back again, are we stillhere FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:38:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'll try. The picture is a scream. She has no front teeth! FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:37:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, ancestry has it indexed as Sincks, with a correction of Spincks, so it is corrected... but I found it doing a soundex search instead of exact FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:37:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, Send it to Pat or me, and we'll post it in a webpage for you. Then it will appear from the webpage here. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:36:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: This is off topic, but I wanted to show you a photo of my granddaughter in her first horse show and didn't do it right. How do I show you a picture? FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:35:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, it's on ancestry.com FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:35:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I found 1 SPINKS DNA kit reported but not a webpage listed for him at FTDNA.com. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:34:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I do not have a match so far that goes into a spinks, spinks is pretty rare to find from ohio area, I think they too originated in pa FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:33:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have corrected many things on ancestory but they dont accept them FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:33:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, Did you look for SPINKS in the Family Tree DNA webpage search box? at http://www.familytreedna.com FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:33:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy where did you find this census FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:31:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, Those name variations will give bricks a bad name every time! You can look for Spinks in the history full texts, but not find it unless Google or Ancestry helps with the changes. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:28:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita and Nancy: Do they have sites that have results for this stuff? Educate us.. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:27:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: they spelled it many different ways but the info looks right. I need a dna from a spinks woman back then who had george in her tree.. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:27:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita: Have you checked OH GenWeb? FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:26:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: this is great, what other info is available that could bring it together, FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:25:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I keep dropping off the info looks right. I have always thought it could be George. I read all the way thru a history of early ohio settlers and it never mentioned George in Coshocton FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:22:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oh. Duh. LOL FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:22:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's the citation: Source Citation: Year: 1830; Census Place: Pike, Coshocton, Ohio; Roll 129; Page: 3. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:22:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy - that is the page number FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:22:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Well the image looks like George Spincks to me FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:21:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Amen, Jerry.. FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:21:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There's no 3 after george's name before the 2 FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:21:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: And the indexers could not see Carolyn (;>) FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:20:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: and for what Jerry posted it is 2 males under 5 1 male 5-10 - - - - 1 Male 40-50 1 female under 5 - - - 1 female 20-30 FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:20:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Should have copied this part too: Last Name First Name Township Page Males Females FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:19:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good Joy! Experience proves that the census takers couldn't hear, couldn't spell, and couldn't write so you could read it most of the time. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:19:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That was from http://coshoctonohio.pa-roots.com/1830_Census/1830pikeindex.ht ml FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:18:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, 1830 Federal Census Index for Coshocton County, Ohio by township and name Spincks George Pike 3 2100001000000 1000100000000 FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:17:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1830 United States Federal Census about George Sincks Name: George Sincks [George Spincks] Township: Pike County: Coshocton State: Ohio FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:17:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: true Nancy FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:16:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: that was quite a trip, had all 7 children with me FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:16:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, At least you don't have to re-type all the info once we've posted it all! FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:16:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita: I think it is to reiterate what you are searching for to others.. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:15:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: that is my information you are giving back to me. LOL FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:14:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: More from Rita in previous chat: FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-May 26, 2009 3:08:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Another result with webpage for DAVID SPINKS of Coshocton OH at http://www.familyorigins.com/users/j/o/n/Rita-M-Jones/FAMO1-000 1/d17.htm 38. David SPINKS (1) was born on 8 Jun 1827 in Coshocton, Oh. He served in the military on 16 Aug 1862 in Green Co, Indiana - Union- Pvt. Co. C, Reg 97, Infantry. David Spinks enrolled at Greene Co. Indiana in the Union Army in the Civil War. He served in Company C , Regiment 97, Indiana Infantry, he was 35 years old when he enlisted on August 16, 1862. He was wounded on July 28, 1864 in Georgia. David later became a sergeant in Co. C. He died on 22 Apr 1905 in Cane Hill, Ak. He was buried on 23 Apr 1905 in Cane Hill, Ark in West Cemetery 3 miles east of Cane Hill and 3 miles west of Lincoln Ark. In 1981, after my grandmother Ethel Taylor Morrison's funeral, my family and I went to Cane Hill, Arkansas in search of David Spinks and Anna Riddle Spinks graves. The first graveyard we went to in the city limits was not the right one. I had Sarah Spinks death certificate from her pension files and it said to drive east of Cane Hill. We drove east and did not see a designated Cemetery. I asked a person standing in his yard if he knew of any cemeteries in the area other than the one in Cane Hill and he said he did. It was located on a chicken farm just up the road and was back on the far side of the property. We went to the location and found no one at home but decided to look for the cemetery. It was located far back and had only 10 or 12 graves of which the two I was looking for were located. I took pictures of the graves and noted that they are in great need of being cleaned up. I intend to notify the Arkansas Historical Society and the Daughters of the Confederacy to see if we can do something about the little cemetery located on the 295 acre farm. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:13:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Way to go Joy. Five years one way or the other 200 years ago would be close enough for me! FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:11:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There is a Logan family tree on ancestry that claims George Spinks, b 1804 Virgia is David Spinks father FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:10:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, I found your query with a few more clues in a previous chat: I have a brick wall - David Spinks b. Jun 8, 1827 Coshockon, Ohio d. Apr 22, 1905 Cane Hill, Arkansas m. Dec 22, 1840 Green Co., Indiana to Anne Riddle b. Mar 4, 1831 Greene Co., Indiana d.Jan 14, 1916 Cane Hill, Arkansas daughter of Samuel Riddle and Elizabeth Wilson. I have been unable to locate the parents of David Spinks. I think it may be George Spinks b. about 1795 in New Jersey who migrated to Ohio. I have been searching for 40 years, perhaps you can help. David Spinks daughter Sarah married Raphe Norval Hatfield. I have all the information on the Hatfields and on the Riddle Line. Rita JOnes - nrmmj@airmail.net FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:09:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, I have ELDER DNA guys in Coshocton, but they are PAXTANG PA DNA group. Spinks sounds familiar, could be involved. I'll look in files... FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:08:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ok, Nancy, My grandfathers brothers grandson did his morrison DNA and he has us back to a specific clan in Scotland. I need to get more info from him FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:08:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here he is: Morrison: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~morrgary/families/morris on/wp_morr_gen5.html 272. Robert Elder, Sr., born Abt. 1769 in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania; died November 30, 1835 in Jackson County, Ohio. He was the son of 544. Thomas Elder. He married 273. Mary A. Dempsey 1789 in Pennsylvania. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:07:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have a brick wall that I need some help with, David Spinks b. 1827 coshocton, ohio cannot find his father, ohio 1830 census is incomplete on ancestry.com FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:07:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, I should have a link by a Morrison, who mixed-up some of the PA guys, but gives clues to early land records in PA at least. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:06:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I believe they are from tennessee and Pa FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:05:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My morrison side is Scots FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:05:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: also stated 16223T 16241G 16298C 16327T 16519C FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:05:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I named my brother's DNA group as "FRANKLIN CO PA" for our Rev. War soldier. Quite different DNA from some early "PAXTANG PA" DNA which is Haplogroup I-Scots, Viking! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:04:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: And some of the "PETER ELDER" DNA group came into VA in 1600's, also in Rev. War records in Spartanburg, SC. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:03:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, We do know that some of our ELDER DNA relatives were in early NC. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:02:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita: tell them about the latest extended family who went back to Pocohontas. Heck I feel like I know her personally by now. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:02:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: LDER GENERATIONS - for Rev. War Soldier, Robert ELDER, b. 1730 Scotland - d. 1807 Franklin Co PA 1. Nancy Anne ELDER b. 13 JUL 1940 Eugene, Lane, OR 2. Martin Irwin ELDER b. 17 NOV 1912 Bothell, King, WA d. 16 AUG 1989 Salem, Marion, OR m. Winifred Elsie HENRY 3. Martin Paschal ELDER b. 1 JUL 1877 Dundee, Monroe, MI d. 13 May 1960 Roseburg, Douglas, OR m. Emily Kathryn KINNEY 4. Josiah M. ELDER b. 1 JAN 1848 Portage, Wood, OH d. 23 Dec 1931 Petersburg, Monroe, MI m. Emily Amelia TROMBLEY 5. John ELDER b. 1805 Fannett, Franklin, PA d. 1863 Wood Co OH m. Mary MOREHOUSE 6. Joseph ELDER b. 16 NOV 1770 Fannett, Franklin, PA d. 7 AUG 1858, Ligonier, Westmoreland, PA m. Polly WALKER 7. Robert ELDER (Rev. War Patriot) b. abt 1730 near PERTH, SCOTLAND d. 1807 Franklin Co, PA m. Mary _THORN FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 3:01:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, My ELDER generations are posted in short form from DAR membership #833222 at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/ ElderGen.htm FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:59:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: What a beautiful certificate FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:59:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Way good on you Pat. Keep up the fear tactics. When you get our age and something is destroyed, it is gone forever.. Just so happy you are getting it. This is so cool that our DNA junkies have met. I know about as much as you can get on the end of a pencil, but Rita is so wonderful about sharing with everyone. They're having a haploconversation. How cool is that!! We could all be one big happy extended family! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:58:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita - we have transcripts back to 2000 on our web page. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:58:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, What does the Haplogroup say about that! FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:57:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: is this easier to read HVR1 223T,241G,298C,327T,519C HVR2 73G,249-,263G,315.1C,489C FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:57:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That certificate is gorgeous! The colors turned out great in the JPG file. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:56:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'll post the transcript right after we finish tonight. You'll be able to see it at: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~waccgs/p3424.htm FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:56:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here is mine HVR1 HVR2 223T,241G,298C,327T,519C 73G,249-,263G,315.1C,489C FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:55:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, Yes, Pat posts it about 9 pm. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:55:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My cousin was afraid it would just be tossed in the garbage if she didn't find a home for it now. I've threatened my family that I will come back and haunt them if they destroy all the family stuff I have if I drop dead tomorrow! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:54:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have one nice marriage certificate at FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:54:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: will this chat be saved so I can look at it later FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:53:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think I can rearrange my closet area so it will all fit. I've gotten rid of bunches of stuff because I thought I was going to get this about two months ago but it didn't pan out. This time it's for real. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:53:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy Elder Petersen's mtDNA (HVR1) Haplogroup: J1b1 mtDNA: 069T,126C,145A,172C,222T,261T also stated: 16069T 16126C 16145A 16172C 16222T 16261T Earliest known maternal ancestor: Sarah Clark (5 APR 1795 PA - 4 FEB 1862) Father: probably William Clark, born 1755 in Ulster, Ireland (Family from Scotland) Res: Woodcock, Crawford County, PA FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:53:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I posted my mtDNA notes at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/ NancyPmtDNA.htm FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:52:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, Yes, I have a very common mtDNA, but at least I have paper trail back to PA, and it's probably Scots, too. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:51:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks! I haven't had nerve to phone up anyone named ELDERS in North Carolina, tho I have ELDER contacts there. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:50:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat: Be thankful you're gaining yet another wonderful bunch of stuff, instead of someone just tossing it. We'll help you find room if necessary! FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:50:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ok, Carolyn and I have a Pat Burns cousin too FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:50:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy, have you submitted your dna yet FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:50:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: No, I'm Pat Bauer. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:49:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Rita, Wow! So we could be cousins, too. I have 24 matches now with my brother's DNA, all ELDER names in PA. No ELDERS spellings yet. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:49:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: How wonderfulPatB. Pat is your last name Burns FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:48:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy: I see some typical name evolutions, which, if addressed, could help you. Ludovic Grant is familiar to us. He signed an affidavit in South Carolina in the 1700's stating that he had been among the Cherokees for 30 years. He "spoke their language.". He married a full blood Cherokee woman and their half blood daughter married an EMory. Not AMory. You will find details in Emmett Starr's "History of The Cherokee Indians". He is also extended family to us. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:47:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My second cousin living in Bend, OR called this evening. Her son is going to stop by here Saturday and leave me a file cabinet filled with family photos and other items for our family tree. I've probably seen most of them previously but I'll be the caretaker now. She's in an assisted living place and has to clear out her apartment. I told her I'd be glad to take the stuff. Gads, another file cabinet - I already have two file cabinets! I haven't told my husband yet. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:47:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn and my lineage also goes into Nancy Ward, In fact, I was just telling C that I had matched into that line 3 different ways with MtDna FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:47:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Current ELDERS names in NC: found: ELDERS SUPERETTE... SYLVA HERALD newspaper item: "located on U.S. 74 West at Barkers Creek, is now open. Owned and operated by Charles and DeWayne Elders, the store offers Exxon gas and products as well as groceries and feed. For information, call 631-9270." SYLVA, JACKSON CO NC (I don't know if these are really Cherokee, tho) news story at http://www.thesylvaherald.com/ruralite070303.htm Cherokee lands map nearby: http://tinyurl.com/26knnj and from Cherokee, NC to Sylva, NC (22 min) http://tinyurl.com/366oqs see also in the story: Cherokee Emergency and Ambulance Service and Qualla Fire Department FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:46:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy Ward genealogy: Surname Index http://www.nancyward.com/names3.htm#ELDERS ELDERS Charles (1905- ). . . Narrative George Cochran (1897-1918). . . Narrative George Whitlock (1847-1906). . . Narrative Thomas F. (1901-1988). . . Narrative William (1822-1852). . . Narrative, Narrative, Narrative William Penn (1895- ). . . Narrative 100. Catherine ROGERS26 was born about 1820 in ,,Cherokee Nation West (now ,,AR).26 She died about 1844.26 Catherine ROGERS and William ELDERS were married about 1842.26 William ELDERS26 (son of Moses ELDERS and Elizabeth WOODARD) was born in 1822 in probably ,,Cherokee Nation East.26 He died in 1852 in probably ,Illinois District, Cherokee Nation, IT (now ,,OK).26 FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:44:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Some of the notes: CHEROKEE ELDER/ELDERS http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnpolk2/elder.htm William Elder, Indian trader or William Henry Elder(s) (b.c. 1699 - d. 1748) "Almost nothing is known of his origins. He was well regarded by the South Carolina and Georgia governments, so we can be sure he was from England and not a pauper. [or maybe SCOTLAND?] He worked in the Overhill villages of Great Tellico and Chatuga (across from each other on the Tellico River). He was associated with William Kelly, Ludovic Grant, Robert Gouedy, John Watts, Thomas Nightingale and John Amory. Other associates were Samuel Benn and Anthony Dean. Ludovic Grant was the trader at Great Tellico from 1726-c.1734. He then went to the Valley town of Tomatly (probably following his father-in-law there as would be the custom.) Elder, Kelly and Nightingale took over the Overhill trade, followed by Gouedy, Benn and Dean. (Watts and Amory were minor players in the trade.) ... more... Cherokee children of William Elder(s) (b.c. 1699 d. 1748) Children born at Great Tellico (in what is now Tennessee): i. unknown ii. Will Elder(s) b.c.1740 d.bef 1794? Chickamauga warrior, "Little Will" father of Moses Elder(s) b.c.1780 FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:44:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Meanwhile, I do have some of my ELDER/ELDERS name posted on a webpage to quote at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/ Cherokee.htm FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:44:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat B is Pat Bauer. My apron benefactor I told you about. She's a wonderful web mistress and great genealogist. FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:43:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ok, I don't know that I am the expert that Carolyn believes, but I will try. Do you use footnote.com FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:42:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: thanks, Pat Burns? FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:42:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Everyone: Now is the time to ask questions about enrollment in the Cherokee Nation. Rita is an expert, and has helped many. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:42:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Rita, We've had some interesting queries about Cherokee genealogy in recent Chat sessions. I could try to find those again! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:42:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It was a good try Joy - thanks much. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:41:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Rita FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:41:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Yes, she stayed Shelton from all I can find out. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:41:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Rita, Glad to see you! Carolyn has introduced you to us. You can comment anytime! FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:41:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm here cuz! They're waiting for you! Glad you could make it! FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:41:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Well, we don't know that Elsie stayed "Shelton", do we? FROM: Rita on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:40:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi, has cousin Carolyn arrived yet FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:39:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Never mind. I found it free. Not the right one anyway Elsie Shelton Monday, December 22, 2008 The Oregonian A memorial service will be at 1 p.m. Saturday, Dec. 27, 2008, in Young's Funeral Home for Elsie Shelton, who died Dec. 11 at age 95. Elsie Schultz was born April 1, 1913, in Walla Walla. She and her husband owned Sunny Lane Motel in Astoria and she had been a manager for Eve's restaurant/Fred Meyer. Her husband, Elmore Shelton, died in 1987. Survivors include her nieces and nephews. Remembrances to Disabled Veterans of America. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:39:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, That sounds like fun! Hope she does login. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:37:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Go ahead Joy and I'll reimburse you for the expenses. It will be worth it! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:37:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oops, I guess that should be searched as Agnes, with mother ELSIE. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:37:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Nancy and Pat!Hope all is well. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:37:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello everyone FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:36:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, the obit is at the Obits Archive for $2.95. Do you want me to go for it? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:36:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I found an Elsie with mother Agnes in 1930, looks different tho. 1930 Name: Elsie H Wheeler Home in 1930: Portland, Multnomah, Oregon View Map Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1913 Relation to Head of House: Daughter Father's Name: Harry J Mother's Name: Agnes W Race: White Household Members: Name Age Harry J Wheeler 43 Agnes W Wheeler 41 Elsie H Wheeler 17 Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Portland, Multnomah, Oregon; Roll 1952; Page: 3B; Enumeration District: 359; Image: 735.0. FROM: Carolyn Ellertson on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:36:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi everyone. I've invited a special cousin in Texas to join us tonight. Her name is Rita Jones, and believe me, she is an awesome genealogist.She is an expert on Native American research (specifically Cherokee), and has helped many people. She and I are cousins through our mixed blood Cherokee GG Grandmothers, who were sisters. During the Ford administration, she was a lobbiest in Washington D.C. on behalf of the Inter Tribal Services. If I am incorrect in explaining this, hopefull she will straighten me out. I have sent her a link, and hoping she will opt in this evening. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:36:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Carolyn! I'm glad you remembered us again this evening. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:36:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:36:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That Elsie Schultz Shelton could be the same person. Perhaps her home was in Boring but she died in Walla Walla. FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:31:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: LAST NAME, First Name (MAIDEN); Age; Place of Death; Newspaper Name; Newspaper date; tagname FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:30:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: SHELTON, Elsie (SCHULTZ); 95; Walla Walla WA>OR; Oregonian; 2008-12-22; jirt FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:28:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The guys on the Sweden list said there was one particular priest who was known for "telling it like it is" in the parish records. They're sure that was one of the obits he wrote FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:27:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That could be her. Any chance of finding an obit for her? If that's her, then the obit should have her daughter's name and perhaps the grandson's name also. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:25:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy - that's a real hoot! Reminds me of a few I've seen in the past years in our area. One stated the man was an alcoholic and he died from drinking too much liquor. Guess it wasn't any family secret! This wasn't very long ago - probably less than five years. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:25:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Soc. Sec Index: Name: Elsie Shelton SSN: 539-09-7338 Last Residence: 97009 Boring, Clackamas, Oregon Born: 1 Apr 1913 Died: 11 Dec 2008 State (Year) SSN issued: Washington (Before 1951) FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:23:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I believe Elsie Shelton died somewhere in Oregon but I'm unsure as to the date. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:22:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That 1884 date is the one I had in my records also. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:22:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: So we might find Elsie Shelton somewhere, too? FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:21:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There was a fun obituary translation on the Sweden list at rootsweb today that's worth a read: 15th of June died master Petter Hansson born in Landskrona the 13th of December 1692. Father Hans Andersson, caretaker [literally: guard-master] at the castle, married to Svenbor Pettersdotter. Petter Hansson learnt to read and write. Went to Lund to learn the carpenter profession. Resided there in the city from 1707 to 1716. As journeyman in Malmö 2 years. Here on the farm [or town block] 1 year. Became master in Lund. Married the first time with Dorothea Jönsdotter 1721, with her no children. She died the 28th of July 1739. Married the second time with Sissa Jönsdotter in 1741 and had with her one daughter, who after 6 weeks died, ditto one son who still lives and is a journeyman carpenter. This wife died 1746. Married the third time with the house-keeper at Nääs; Helena Pehrsdotter, with her not had any children. Regarding Petter Hansson's way of living, he has been much inclined to drunkenness; from which followed much un-friendliness, quarreling and bickering, especially with the last wife who could not stand such lecherous behavior. Some years before he died there seemed to be some improvement - was anyway, these years very ill. His age 78 years and 6 months. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:21:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: FROM: Joy on DATE-Apr 1, 2009 22:55:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Don't know if this is helpful at all, but using Jess's death record on the California Death index, you find: California Death Index, 1940-1997 about Jess F Shelton Name: Jess F Shelton Social Security #: 554092770 Sex: MALE Birth Date: 19 Jun 1904 Birthplace: Indiana Death Date: 4 Apr 1964 Death Place: Sacramento Mother's Maiden Name: Skaggs So his mother's maiden name is Skaggs, and his father is Shelton. He was born in Indiana. I did a search on Ancestry.com and found: Indiana Marriage Collection, 1800-1941 about Sarah A Skaggs Name: Sarah A Skaggs Spouse Name: James Shelton Marriage Date: 22 Nov 1884 Marriage County: Montgomery Source Title 1: Montgomery County, Indiana Source Title 2: Index to Marriage Record 1860-1920 Inclusive Volum Source Title 3: W. P. A. Original Record Located County Clerk's Of Book: 10 OS Page: 479 FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:20:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oh yes, that's Jess. I found a first marriage for him - prior to the marriage to my mom. He said he was 21, but he was only 17. He married Violet L. Johnson 9 Jul 1921. He married my mom 14 Aug 1923 - and again said he was 21. He was 19 that time. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:20:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: More postings: FROM: Joy on DATE-Apr 2, 2009 16:46:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: No clue at all why Jess ended up in Washington by 1921... when he was just 16. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:18:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: FROM: Joy on DATE-Apr 2, 2009 23:23:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Based on information in Jess Shelton's record from the Morton Reformatory, he was extradited from Arkansas, Kansas. Using that and the information from his marriage record to Marie Winans, that she was from Cowley County, Kansas - I found: 1930 Census Arkansas, Cowley, Kansas 22 April 1930 608 Cedar Ave Winans, Grant I, head, m, w, 65, m, 25, Indiana, Ohio, Indiana, Minister, Free Methodist Nellie M, wife, f, w, 54, m, 18, Kansas, Michigan, New York Shelton, Maurie S, daughter, f, w, m, 18, Kansas, Indiana, Kansas Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Arkansas, Cowley, Kansas; Roll: 697; Page: 26A; Enumeration District: 7; Image: 1022.0. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:18:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy - I use my little 'puter upstairs in our den with my old flat screen monitor and a keyboard (USB plug) and it runs beautifully. I got a "mini-mouse" at Fred Meyer for $15 - it's the USB type also with a stretchy cord. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:17:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Is this the same one? FROM: PatB on DATE-Apr 2, 2009 1:43:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening Steve. I've been looking over the things Joy has found - amazing! She sent me the records from WA state for Jess and his prison sentence - complete with a picture of him at about 25. I can certainly tell where my half brother Ken gets his good looks! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:16:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jess did go by Jesse on one marriage certificate. He as born in Indiana. His parents were James B. Shelton and Sarah Ann Skaggs. Now I see where the name James came from for his third son. I have no idea where Kenneth Junior and Leonard Leroy came from. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:16:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Now I see some of the clues you posted on previous chats. FROM: PatB on DATE-Apr 2, 2009 1:47:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: So Jess married Marie Winans in 1929 when she was only 17. Katy's letter in those papers was really interesting. It finally tells the story of the marriage break-up. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~waccgs/4-2-09.txt FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:13:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Similar one: Name: Raymond J Shelton Home in 1920: Elgin, Union, Oregon Age: 16 years Estimated Birth Year: abt 1904 Birthplace: Oregon Relation to Head of House: Son Father's Name: John C Father's Birth Place: Oregon Mother's Name: Martha M Mother's Birth Place: Washington Marital Status: Single Race: White Sex: Male Able to read: Yes Able to Write: Yes Household Members: Name Age John C Shelton 48 Martha M Shelton 51 Lucian A Shelton 24 Ethel M Shelton 19 Raymond J Shelton 16 Mary R Shelton 15 Source Citation: Year: 1920;Census Place: Elgin, Union, Oregon; Roll T625_1505; Page: 4A; Enumeration District: 180; Image: 65. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:11:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Did Jess Shelton use any other names? I can't find him at all on Ancestry.com. Here's one: Name: Edward J Shelton Home in 1930: Weist, Teton, Montana View Map Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1904 Birthplace: Oregon Relation to Head of House: Son-in-law Spouse's Name: Florence N Race: White Household Members: Name Age Tobias Talifson 49 Dena Talifson 48 Arlie L Talifson 27 Dora T Talifson 18 Raymond M Talifson 13 Lillian M Talifson 11 Betty L Talifson 8 Edward J Shelton 26 Florence N Shelton 23 Edward J Shelton 1 2/12 Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Weist, Teton, Montana; Roll 1264; Page: 1B; Enumeration District: 39; Image: 163.0. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:10:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy, I bought that drive on Amazon. It was about $20 delivered with no tax. Works great. Two plug-ins and no electrical connection. It's just a CD-Rom, not a burner. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:05:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oops - ours is August 8! The Amboy picnic is August 1. FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:04:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, I bought one of those little acer notebook computers...know you did too. Where did you get an external drive for it? FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:04:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Leverich Park FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:04:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy - where will the picnic be held? Our Bower/Bauer reunion picnic will be held at Abrams Park in Ridgefield on August 1. FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:03:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy, sometime in the fall would you send me an update to put in Jay's book? I suspect down the road those little girls might want to know more about their ancestors. FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:02:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy, I'm always updating. LOL. Mom is well. We're getting ready for the Sandstrom / Settles Picnic on August 1 FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:02:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: As a side note when daughter and I were photographing local cemetery, someone posted a photo of a gravestone taken many years ago...we photographed the same stone and they have filled in and the whole bottom of the stone has been covered (thankfully no writing) FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 2:00:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Watching the news and the tragedy of the Burr Oak Cemetery near Chicago where graves were resold..Boy, makes you want to go our and get all the lists of cemeteries and photos so you have documentation FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:59:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I should report that I did find a Google.com entry for a Nancy McCLATCHEY that's the right age. Found entry on McClatchey Surname webpages: James MCCLATCHEY I c.1730-September 26, 1808 * BIRTH: c.1730, Ulster, Ireland Father: UNKNOWN Mother: UNKNOWN Wife: Jane UNKNOWN (c.1738-c.1800) *born in Scotland * MARRIAGE: Ulster, Ireland * IMMIGRATION: c.1766 * DEATH: September 26, 1808, either Armstrong County or Westmoreland, Pennsylvania; buried Union Cemetary, Middlesex, Armstrong County, Pennsylvania Children: Mary MCCLATCHEY (1763-1820) *married Daniel KILLEN/KILLIN Robert MCCLATCHEY (c.1765-?) James MCCLATCHEY II (May 20, 1767-April 28, 1842) *married Catherine DAVIS; married Elizabeth UNKNOWN; married Margaret GLENN Nancy MCCLATCHEY (c.1769-?) Elizabeth MCCLATCHEY (June 26, 1769-August 10, 1805) *married James DONALDSON SR on March 15, 1791 Charles MCCLATCHEY (June 26, 1769-November 25, 1839) FROM: riley on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:58:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Evening from Poulsbo. Joy, have you updated your Sandstrom family in the past year? How is your mom FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:57:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Judy, How are you doing? FROM: Joy on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:56:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Judy FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:55:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It's just something to discuss tonight since we have nothing else. What a puzzle! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:52:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, I wish we had recorders for oral history at least, for all these questions! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:51:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'll just mention my search for Nancy McClatchey ELDER, married Samuel ELDER, and may be in Armstrong Co PA. We just can't find her. The researcher has photos of cemetery markers in the area, but not hers. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:51:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My problem is - the person who knew some of the details was my older half brother, Leonard. He died at age 64 in 1990. Kenneth knows nothing of his dad. FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:49:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think the son of Agnes & Jess Shelton was born in the 1940's. It was after that when they divorced, she married Grant and he adopted young James. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:49:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Yipes! That sounds challenging for sure! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:48:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I've been working on an impossible ELDER query this week, and I thought I should have found the answer, as the location is in PA, where lots of ELDER names have been identified in our ELDER DNA project. But not this one! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:48:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I see there's no new brick wall so maybe I can give you a job - a challenge actually! I've put together a notebook for "The Many Wives of Jess Shelton" and I'd like to find the information (and maybe certificates) for the two more marriages that I know of - he might have had more! He married a lady named Agnes but I'm not certain of the year. I know her next husband was named Grant - if that's any lead at all. As for location - maybe Oregon, Washington or California. After their divorce, he married Elsie, the mother of Agnes, so there's another clue. He was born 19 June 1904 & died 4 Apr 1964 in California when he was still married to Elsie. Not much to go on. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:47:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Joy! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Jul 9, 2009 1:47:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Pat, Really quiet, maybe baseball games going on! FROM: PatB on DATE-Jul 5, 2009 23:48:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Just checking to be sure this posted. Hope we have a brickwall to use before Thursday night! See you then. FROM: Nancy & Pat on DATE-Jul 5, 2009 23:46:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy Elder Petersen and Patricia McKee Bauer, along with several regular visitors, will be staffing the GenChat room beginning about 6:45 p.m. Thursday evening. We close the door about 9:00 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. We have visitors who will give you a willing helping hand with your genealogy brick walls. You can enter questions or answers at any time but we hope you will be able to join us when we are open for discussions. BRICKWALL PROJECT: We don't have any special project for this week. If something comes through before Thursday evening, it will be posted here. Please click on the "log-out" button (lower right) before you leave.