August 9, 2007 Remember to begin reading this transcript from the bottom to the top! FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 4:01:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm going to have to log out now and I'll post the transcript in a few minutes. This has been a busy evening and I think you all gave Carolyn a lot of information. This should keep her busy for a while! See you all next week. Goodnight all. FROM: Jans on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 4:01:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ok, Thank you Pat. Have a good week! FROM: Jans on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 4:00:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Yes, I'll try to remember; I am on central time FROM: Jans on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:59:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Terrific, I'm sure he is part of that family but I just arrived in Clark County. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:59:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Tonight we've been working on a Finnish query so we actually cover the world, not just Clark County. If you give me a subject, we can use it next week as our brick wall. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:59:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'll log out now, and will watch for a query for next Thursday! FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:58:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: You enter your query in the white block at the bottom of the screen, then click on Send Message. I worked at the Vancouver Post Office with Ray South many years ago. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:58:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jans, Can you login at 7 pm our time next Thursday? FROM: Jans on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:58:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Is this mainly for Clark CO? FROM: Jans on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:57:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Well in Clark County, WA looking for the South family. FROM: Jans on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:57:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm lost, first time here FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:57:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks Steve - that's another good site. Carolyn will have lots of Canadian lists to search. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:56:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Jans - we're almost ready to close down until next Thursday evening. Can we help you with something? FROM: Steve on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:56:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/searchnengships.shtml FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:55:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jans, What are you researching this evening? FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:52:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Lots of ship records on this site. Ship records: http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/thevoyage.html FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:52:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Another one: The Ships List http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm pre-1865 | 1865-1919 | 1919-1924 | 1925-1935 | post-1935 | US via Canada Canadian Sources | LDS microfilms | Home Children | Resource Links FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:49:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild Canadian Ports of Arrival Browse a nice selection of online transcribed passenger lists for arrivals into the Canadian ports of Fort Cumberland, Halifax, Newport, Pictou, and Shelburne, Nova Scotia; Montreal; Quebec; and Prince Edward Island. Free from the Immigrant Ships Transcriber's Guild. Quebec, Canada http://genealogy.about.com/od/canada_immigration/index.htm FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:49:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: This page on the CCGS website has lots of Canadian links. You might look at it to see if you can find the ship records. Canadian websites: http://www.ccgs-wa.org/p3782.htm FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:47:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, Here's a webpage for Canada: http://genealogy.about.com/od/canada_immigration/index.htm FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:46:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Following up Geographic names: > "The family Pakka lived in Vöyri, Vaasa province, Finland. The village they lived in ( Pakka village ) later became a part of Ylihärmä parish." More resources from Finland queries: at http://www.genealogia.fi/plark/finngen/1999_05/msg00128.html Sauli Yli-Kahila Victoria, BC, Canada syk@uvic.ca KenMard@aol.com wrote: > Hello - > Does anyone know what parish Ylihärmä was part of prior to 1788? > Ken Marder in Chicago > -- > Finngen is managed by Genealogical Society of Finland. > Also visit our home page at http://www.genealogia.fi . * References: o Yliharma Parish + From: KenMard@aol.com FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:38:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: thank you for all your help. does any one know the links to Canadian ship records. I must log out soon. FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:36:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy: Does the Matti Pakka emigration info give any age or other info. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:31:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Trying out the database to see what happens when I just ask for Patronymic MATTSON in VASA: results: 23.8.1803 24.8.1803 7 qv. 31 Sjöm: JOh: Matts: Holm Brita Jacobsdr: Maria Brita 25.2.1804 26.2.1804 7 qv. 23 Sjöm: Matts Mattss: Smed Elisab: Cathar: Asplund Mathias 13.7.1804 15.7.1804 7 qv. 35 Arb.k. Mich: Mattss: Hedman Anna Cath: Mattsdotter Berg Carl Joh: 9.4.1805 9.4.1805 1qv. 27 Trumslag Joh: Mattss: Dahlström Ulrica Jacobsdr: dödf. gosseb. (tvilling) 9.4.1805 9.4.1805 1 qv. 27 Trumslag. Joh: Mattss: Dahlström Ulrica Jacobsdr: Joh: Gustaf (tvilling) 10.4.1805 1805 1 qv. 34 Arb.k. Thomas Mattss: Laihiander Elisab: Jacobsdr: dödf. gosseb. ..... FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:29:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy: The Matti Pakka lead about Thunder Bay could be very important. How, where did you find that? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:24:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Examples include Henry: How to search The aim of the search is to standardize the text in the history books to a current way of spelling. E.g. the original name forms Henr., Henric, Hinric, etc. have been standardized to Henrik. As such it does not matter what the standardized name is, as it is used only to help the search. The results of the search are shown in the original form. Whether you search with Henric, Henrik, Heikki etc. you will get the same result. It is best to search by the present names, even though the same data is found with several name forms (e.g. all the names used in the history books). Standardization used in this program does not take a stand on how the names should be presented in genealogy. The output gives only the original name. Note! Standardization is not yet ready, and it is not always easy to find the right data. If you have difficulties in finding the names, please, read carefully instructions on how to input the search text. http://www.genealogia.fi/historia/en/ohjeet.htm FROM: Riley on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:21:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There are a lot of Mattson/Matson names around...seems that many of the Finnish were named for their father, Matti....so the son of Matti became Mattson. My family's surname was Seppanen before being "Americanized" FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:19:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: More database instructions: Instructions on how to input the search text The text in the search form should be written in the current form of writing. The search program can look for the data written in various ways. The letters may be in lower or upper case. Only those fields that have input text (numbers etc.) affect the search. The other fields can be left empty. It is not necessary to include all of the text. The wild cards * and ? can be used. * represents any string of characters (also no character) and ? represents one character. E.g. with the search text *Kuona*, Ala-Kuona, Ylä-Kuona, and other texts including Kuona are also found. *Kuona finds, in addition to Kuona, Ala-Kuona and Ylä-Kuona. Kuona* finds, in addition to Kuona, e.g. Kuonan torppa, etc. The search program automatically uses the wild card * at the end of the word. Thus Kuona is the equivalent of Kuona*. To search a word ending exactly as written, add a period. E.g. Berg. finds only the text Berg, but not Bergholm. When searching from several parishes a wild card should not be used in the beginning of the word. This would increase the search time considerably. The wild card, however, can be used at the end of the word. First name The first name should be written in its present form. The search program can search names based on both the Finnish and the Swedish form of spelling. Examples: * Johan = finds all persons whose first name is Johan, Juho, Juhani, etc. * Juho = the same If the field is left empty, all values of that field are accepted. Patronymic (the name of the father) It is best to write the patronymic in its present form. The search program can search names based on both the Finnish and the Swedish form of spelling. The patronymic can be written either with or without the ending (poika/son tytär/dotter/dr). During the test phase of this program it is best to use the Swedish name with the ending son or dr. Examples: * Johanson = finds all persons whose patronymic is Johanson, Johans., Juhonpoika, etc. * Juhonpoika = the same * Johan = the same * Juho = the same If the field is left empty, all values of that field are accepted. Last name It is best to write the last name as currently spelled. It creates a problem to standardize the last names, and different spellings should be tried if data seems to be missing. Often it is best to use about the first five letters of the beginning of the name, in which case all the names beginning that way are found. It is good to note that in Western Finland the patronymic and not the last name was often used. If the field is left empty, all values of that field are accepted. http://www.genealogia.fi/historia/en/ohjtekst.htm#etunimi FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:19:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Riley; Never heard of a Clyde. There was another Rinta family at ridgefield, not related to us (we checked) FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:18:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Clicking on Marriage link: Man (first name, patronymic, last name, village, house) See the instructions of how to input the names and how to input the names of the places. Wife (first name, patronymic, last name, village, house) See the instructions of how to input the names and how to input the names of the places. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:16:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Selected VAASA - VASA on list: linked: http://www.genealogia.fi/hiski/-gozadv Vaasa - Vasa * Christened (1803-1855) * All (1803-1855) * Statistics (1803-1855) More information about this parish --So 1883 is not in this database FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:16:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Matti Pakka emigrated from Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada into the US to Duluth Minnesota in June 1907. The record shows his original "landing" as Quebec on June 15, 1891 (ship's name unknown). Perhaps Ida travelled with him? FROM: Riley on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:15:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My Mattsons also were from Finland but couldn't get much info from "the old country" on them. Carolyn, I knew a Clyde Rinta in HS..any relation? FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:14:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn - have you been able to find the past transcripts? I should be able to have this one posted by about 9:15 tonight - providing Rootsweb cooperates with me! FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:14:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy: It is possible that those Pakka names are part of Ida's family. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:14:05 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Judy, We're learning about Finnish name and emigrants for Carolyn Womack Rinta, who is giving us more clues! Didn't you do some Finnish research? FROM: Riley on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:13:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The Mattson name is part of my maternal family, but sadly we are not related... FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:13:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Judy FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:13:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Judy FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:12:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The Genealogical Society of Finland HisKi project http://www.genealogia.fi/hiski/-goyr0e?en Instructions on the book of christened The following search criteria applies to the books of christened: Years The search can be limited to certain years, if the approximate birth date of the child is known. If these fields are left empty, all years are included in the search. Note that in the database there are no events from the 20th century. Examples: * 1700 - 1800 = search years 1700-1800 * 1700 - (the second field empty) = search from year 1700 onward * - 1800 (the first field empty) = search from the beginning until year 1800 If necessary, days and months can also be used in limiting the time to be included in the search. The dates must be entered in this format: dd.mm.yy (e.g. 3.5.1775). One can also enter only the month and year (e.g. 5.1775). In that case, the month in question will be included in the search. FROM: Riley on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:11:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Greetings from Sheridan, OR...using my new wireless hi-speed internet...wow, I'm moving into the 20th century FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:11:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: All of these links will be in the transcript when I post it this evening Carolyn. You will have to copy and paste them to your browser to reach the various pages. FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:10:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: nancy: will I be able to come back and access the web addresses etc that all these helpful people are sharing with me? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:10:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Frank, Do you know any good resources for Finland birth certificates? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:09:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, 1920 census gave us good dates and some connections, now we need to broaden our net for clues to how the names might be listed in any of the documents in Finland, I think. FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:08:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Children of Matt Pakka in WA Washington Births, 1907-1919 about Irja Mildred Pakka Name: Irja Mildred Pakka Birth Date: 17 Oct 1913 LOCATION: King Sex: Female Race: White Father's name: Matt Pakka Mother's name: Hilda Kakole Image Filename: 4449 Washington Births, 1907-1919 about Ralph Rudolph Pakka Name: Ralph Rudolph Pakka Birth Date: 27 Aug 1915 LOCATION: King Sex: Male Race: White Father's name: Matt Pakka Mother's name: Hilda Kakela Image Filename: 4449 FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:08:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Verneice and Frank - welcome to the chat room. Have you been with us before Frank? If not, the board is easy to use - just enter your message in the block at the bottom of the page and then click on "Send Message" and it will post. FROM: Verneice on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:08:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Everyone! Can anyone tell me how to find some message boards that will put me in touch with Steve Orta or Pam Anderson? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:08:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi frank, What are you researching this evening? FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:07:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I probably neglected to say that Ida was born in 1883 FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:07:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Vernceice, We're learning alot about Finnish names and emigrants! Glad to see Carolyn back to give us more clues! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:06:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Howdy Verneice. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:06:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Migrations webpage MATTSON Similar name: John Henry MATTSON 1868-1911 Himanka, Vaasa, Finland Additional Notes Migration Steps Finnish Name: Juho Heike Rahkola The 1910 U.S. Census shows the following: John Mattson Age 42 Married 16 years owned home, no mortgage. Their home was 23 South 11th St. Cloquet. Hendrika Age 39 Gave birth to 9 children, 5 living. Her maiden name was Kylma. Herman Age 16 Son Silia Age 10 Daughter (My Mother Celia Amanda) Lydia Age 7 Daughter Henry Age 4 Son Lempi Age 3 Daughter (My Aunt Myrtle) Alex Age 24 Brother of John Also 13 boarders living in their home Boarders included: Daniel Kylma Age 36 Married 11 years. Jacob Kylma Age 30 Single John Hill Age 29 Single (May be Hendrika's 2nd husband) FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:02:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looking at names in LDS Familysearch, using "Lida Mattson" found similar entries... LYDIA EMELIE MATTSSON Female Event(s): Birth: 25 DEC 1864 Christening: 26 DEC 1864 Halsua, Vaasa, Finland Death: 14 OCT 1868 Burial: Parents: Father: MATTS ABRS Family Mother: BRITA MAIJ ANDDR FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 3:00:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: To jerryt the only Pakka's we know about is one brother John Rickard who died in Mullan Id in 1937. Ida's 1940 obit listed a brother Matt in seatlle. but no one living knows anything about him. We do not know if they were full or half brothers to Ida Matson Rinta. The family legend speaks of her as a "bastard child" sent over as a small child to be a servant/nanny. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:59:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: If John Pakka, her brother came from VAASA, then all the others could be relatives....always looking for a clue. John Rikhard Pakka - Lewis County Naturalization Record Last Name: Pakka First Name: John Middle Name: Rikhard Alias Name: County: Lewis Document Type: Declaration of Intention Volume: 5 Document Number: 1280 Date of Document: 16-Dec-1927 Date of Birth: 16-Aug-1896 Birthplace: Waasa Finland FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:55:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Some Finnish womens names translated to English: (Hope this comes out!) Elsa Vilhelmsdotter Norrgard > Elsa Norrgord Maria Härtull > Mary Hertell Johanna Karlsdotter Bjurbäck > Hanna Carlson Amanda Johansdotter Anneberg > Manda Berg Lovisa Martensdotter Barkaris > Lovisa Burk Kristina Vilhelmsdotter > Kristina Williams Anna Irene Anders Henriksdotter Grop > Anna I. Henrikson FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:54:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Finnish baby names: Heikki Finnish form of Henry. http://www.babynamebox.com/finnish-baby-names.html FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:51:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Apparently Heikki was "americanized " to Henry. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:51:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Henry in Finland: Henry of Uppsala BM (RM) (also known as Henry of Finland) Born in England; died in Finland c. 1156; canonized in 1158; feast of the translation of his relics to Abo, June 18. Saint Henry, an Englishman living in Rome, became an apostle to Scandinavia. He accompanied the papal legate, Nicholas Cardinal Breakspear (later Pope Adrian IV), to Scandinavia in 1151 and was consecrated bishop of Uppsala, Sweden, the following year by the cardinal at the council of Linköping. Henry was with King Saint Eric of Sweden during the latter's crusade into Finland, in 1154, to punish to Finnish pirates who repeatedly invaded Sweden. Eric offered peace and the Christian faith, both of which were refused by the Finns. In the ensuing battle, Eric prevailed. Thereafter, Henry baptized the defeated Finns in the spring of Kuppis near Abo. When Eric returned home, Henry remained in Turku to continue his efforts at evangelization. Unfortunately, he was less tactful than zealous, and the warlike circumstances under which he arrived in Finland were not a good recommendation for Christianity. Nevertheless, Henry built a church at Nousis and made it his headquarters. After a few years, Henry was martyred on Kirkkosaari in Lake Kjulo with an axe by an angry convert named Lalli, upon whom Henry had imposed a heavy penance, including excommunication, for the murder of a Swedish soldier. Soon after his burial in Nousis, miracles began to occur. The union of Finland and Sweden wrought by Henry and Eric lasted much longer than they did--until the 14th century. On June 18, 1300, Henry's relics were translated to Abo cathedral, and, in 1370, a magnificent Flemish sepulchral brass was placed on his original tomb. This brass, which depicts Henry's life, death, and miracles, still exists. Henry's cultus spread to Sweden, where Uppsala cathedral has a cycle of murals devoted to him. An English chapel in the Carmelite church in Great Yarmouth is also dedicated to him. The Russians took the relics from Abo in 1720 (Attwater, Benedictines, Delaney, Encyclopedia, Farmer, Gill). In Sweden, Saint Henry is generally portrayed in art as a bishop being murdered at Mass together with young King Eric, patron saint of Sweden (Roeder). In medieval churches in Finland, Henry is depicted trampling on Lalli--Finland's primary contribution to iconography. He is also included in Niccolo Circignani's series of paintings of English martyrs completed in 1582 for the English College in Rome. Henry is considered the patron saint of Finland and is especially invoked by the local seal-fishermen during storms (Farmer). FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:50:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn, If Henry was Matson (Matt's son), His siblings would be Mattsson or Mattsdotter, but Henry's father would be Matt (unknown). FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:49:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy: My husband's grandfather was from Vasa. I think i have found his record in Ellis island. I do not believe he knew Ida prior to leaving Finland. Fairly big age difference. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:49:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Same webpage: Two-thirds of the emigrants had to borrow ticket money from Finland or from someone who had emigrated before them. If they couldn´t scrape up the money, they couldn´t emigrate. Once they had the money, it was necessary to get a passport. They needed a church-issued birth certificate and a certificate of non-objection from the police authority... http://sydaby.eget.net/swe/emi_ostr.htm FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:48:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: It's possible, Carolyn. I don't know what the Finnish spelling of Henrysdotter (or Heinricksdotter/son) is. Her brother could have taken the name Pakka from where they lived. FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:47:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Joy: Have never came across any Mattson's in the family tree. Only mention was on the marriage record in Ontario. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:47:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: North America suffered a labor shortage in the 1860´s and ´70´s, and the influx of immigrants helped solved the problem. A continuous stream of emigrants began in 1867, when a factory worker from Vasa left Finland. In the peak year of 1902, 7,310 people were issued a passport by the province of Vasa. From 1870-1930 about 400,000 emigrants left Finland, with 320,000 going to the United States and 80,000 to Canada. About 52% of them came from Vasa province. http://sydaby.eget.net/swe/emi_ostr.htm FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:45:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gen chat: Finally logging in: A friend tells me that Ida's given name could have been listed as Iida. does that sound right? Also that if she was "henry's" dau. her last name could have been Heikkintytr. Does that make sense? FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:45:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi everyone else, too. :) FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:44:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jerry FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:42:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn and Joy FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:41:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Joy, Thanks for the reviews and info for Carolyn! I'm happy to see Carolyn login again! FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:41:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn and Joy - lots of info here and it looks like there are more clues to the Matson & Pakka names. Joy found a lot of things for you that are posted here - she's been a busy gal! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:41:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn, We've been finding out more about Finland and possible emigrants with similar names! Have you seen any of these MATTSON relatives? FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:39:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: They sure sound really similar! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:39:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry, Maybe the Michigan family is related, tho. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:37:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My Pakka family had ten children but only 5 of them lived to adulthood, one of them dying young with no descendats. The remaining four emigrated to America. The two sons were married, their families stayed in Finland. When emigrating, they might have also used the name Mattsson, as they father was called Matti. I have not found any of them in Ellis Island. Antti ( or Andrew ) was born 23rd March 1862. He got a passport for emigration April 1896, probably to the US. Pronounced dead in Finland 1923. Erkki ( or Eric ) was born 5th July 1868 and emigrated 1895-1897, exact year unknown. His passport and shipping list records cannot be found in Finland. Might also have used the name Syrjämäki or same variation of it, like Maki, Mackey, or even Hill as this is what the name means. Pronounced dead in Finland 1919 but was rumoured to have died after that, probably 1929. Erkki was my husband´s great-grandfather. Maria was born 7th Apr 1874 and emigrated with his fiancée Tuomas ( or Tommy ) Punkari 1896, probably married in America. They settled in Lanesville, Essex county, MA and can be found in the 1900 census, ED 286, page 14 using the name Bankrey, with their son Matt O, 4 years. Maria died 7th Feb 1901 and is buried in Lakeview Cemetery with her daughter Anni, born 1900. What happened to Tommy and Matt is unknown. They might have returned to Finland. Wilhelmina ( nickname Miina ) was born 8th Jan 1881 in Vöyri, Finland. She got a passport to America in April 1899 and travelled 29th April 1899 from Finland alone and unmarried, using the nickname Miina. Her travel documents say that she is going to Rockport to become a servant there. The papers of his father´s estate from the year 1911 tell that she was being rumoured to have married and had two children in America but died. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:37:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I do not think that is them Nancy. this family came to the US about 1896 and lived in Michigan. That is a query in the MAESSEX-L Archives at Rootsweb FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:35:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That surely sounds like why we have the two surnames for Carolyn's family! Sounds like the same family. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:34:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: What was the source on that one? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:34:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry, That sounds like the same family alright! FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:33:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I was thinking that was the surname of one of our CCGS members but she's Vartanian - kind of sounds the same though. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:32:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: "The family Pakka lived in Vöyri, Vaasa province, Finland. The village they lived in ( Pakka village ) later became a part of Ylihärmä parish. The community was bilingual, most people speaking Swedish and the names have been written variably in Swedish or in Finnish. The Pakka family was Finnish speaking. Possible name variations are Pakka, Bakka, Packa and Backa. Their ancestry and life in Finland has been thoroughly researched.There were other families in the village with the same family name, many of them remotely related. My Pakka family had ten children but only 5 of them lived to adulthood, one of them dying young with no descendats. The remaining four emigrated to America. The two sons were married, their families stayed in Finland. When emigrating, they might have also used the name Mattsson, as they father was called Matti." FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:32:26 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Searching for "FINLAND - and "birth documents" has Consulate info: http://www.finland.org/doc/en/consular Passport Visas and residence permits Nationality Service fees Business support Others FAQs Consulates in the U.S. Services The Embassy of Finland in Washington and the Finnish Consulate General in New York and Los Angeles provide consular services that include passports for Finnish Citizens, assistance to Finnish citizens in distress, population registration, notary services, and matters relating to military service and Finnish citizenship. Pre-elections are also arranged by the Finnish missions. "Good to know"- list for Finnish citizens (printout version-Word.doc) The Finnish missions in the United states also provide information about Finnish authorities, and give general advice in legal and administrative issues. Foreigners can contact the Embassy and Consulates General for matters concerning entry into and residence in Finland (Schengen -visa, residence and work permit) FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:32:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I just had a note from my eldest granddaughter. She signs her notes with "Life is what you make of it - kind of like Play Doh!" FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:25:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry, Interesting! I know of a name WIRTANEN, maybe more N's, too. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:24:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Another interesting MATTSON of VAASA genforum entry: WILFRED E. MATTSON, SOO, MI (VAASA/OOLU FI Posted by: KAY MATTSON Date: March 17, 2002 at 06:36:06 of 219 I AM LOOKING FOR ANY RELATIVES OR FAMILY OF WILFRED E. MATTSON SON OF MATTHEW MATTSON AND GRETA SOPHIA SALO OF VAASA AND OULU FINLAND. HE WAS BORN AUG 9, 1912. THANKS SO MUCH! http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?vaasa::mattson::149.html FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:23:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I sent her an e-mail and hopefully she will join us here but I haven't heard anything back from her yet. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:22:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: "Swedish patronymics functioning as surnames began to appear in the first part of the 19th century among members of the middle and upper classes The use of patronymical surnames spread among Swedish-speaking ordinaly people - or Finns living in bilingual regions - only at the end of the 19th century, when people in western Finland began to use family names. Sometimes these names were personal by-names rather than names of the families. The modern family name system came into being in Finland as the distinctions between the professions began to break down, as the class system began to disintegrate, as people began to move freely and as the compulsory education system was created. It happened above all because of the language struggle and the break-through of the national ideology from about the year 1850. Most Finns were given Finnish family names by clergymen, teachers or foremen in factories. The use of names was also indluenced by the press, colleges of education and agricultural schools. A family name of a new kind, the so-called Virtanen-type, where the base of the name is formed by a topographical or botanical term, was born under the influence of national romanticism. This innovation spread explosively in the last quarter of the 19th century. The stock of such names was limited, and many of them are consequently among the most common Finnish names today." FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:22:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat I wonder if Carolyn has found any similar documents about MATTSON or MATSON. Will Carolyn log in tonight, too? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:20:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Mattson Family Genealogy Forum http://genforum.genealogy.com/mattson/page2.html and search for "ida" found similar names: http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?ida::mattson::87.html Posted by: Tauno Haapasaari Date: February 12, 2001 at 07:44:42 of 219 I'm looking for information about Ida Mattson (f. Ahola) b. 1891- died 1982 in Marquette,MI and about his husband Matt Mattson. They had 4 boys Walfred b. 1913, Victor b. 1912, William(Bill) b. 1916 and Werner b. 1917. Ida Mattson immigrated in 1909 to Hibbing, MN. William lived in 1980 in Detroit. Any help appreciated. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:20:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: "The majority of western Finns were without a surname (släktnamn) until the last quarter of the 19th century. In western Finland the inhabitants were normally registered in official records only with their first name plus the patronymic in Swedish (or in Latin, Russian or German). The names of houses were in local use as some kind of additional names either in their original form or with that form plus an ending. Later these names were also used as family names. " FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:16:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Interesting that LDS has some patronymic entries that look similar in VAASA: Ida Charlotta Mattsdotter Pedigree Female Event(s): Birth: 14 JUL 1885 Furuback, Karleby, Vaasa, Finland Christening: Death: 10 AUG 1923 Burial: FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:15:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Close to Pakka: Pekka (male name) Pekka is derived from old Finnish name Petrus (which in turn comes from the Greek name Petros which means rock), English name Peter has same origin as Pekka. Nameday June 29th FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:14:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: LDS has 1 "family member" Husband John Rinta Pedigree Birth: About 1873 , , Finland Christening: Marriage: , Thunder Bay District, Ontario Death: Burial: Wife Ida Matson Pedigree Birth: About 1884 , , Finland Christening: Marriage: , Thunder Bay District, Ontario Death: Burial: Children 1. John William Rinta Pedigree Male Birth: 10 JUL 1903 Roslyn, , , British Columbia Christening: Death: 27 JUN 1980 Aberdeen, Grays Harbor, Washington Burial: FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:14:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: So far, Found LDS has Ida Matson da Matson Female Event(s): Birth: About 1884 , , Finland Christening: Death: Burial: Marriages: Spouse: John Rinta Family Marriage: , Thunder Bay District, Ontario FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:10:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oops, spelling of patronymic! I'll try to be accurate! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:09:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Or in the Patronimics, the g-father's name is Matt, with next in line, Mattson, or Matson. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:08:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: We have at least one case in the ELDER DNA reocrds, where the child is given the mother's maiden name ELDER, but the father is not known, and we're trying to find "another surname" match maybe from the neighborhood in North Carolina during the time of the boy's birth. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:06:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Or the mother's maiden name was Matson when she had a child? FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:05:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Was there a date found for the marriage of Ida's parents? Was it also common in Finland for a couple to have a child before marriage? If so, perhaps Ida was born and then the mother married someone else and that man raised Ida, thus became her legal father. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:05:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jerry, Joy entered alot of good info! Maybe she'll get into Finnish databases, too! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:04:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Greetings everyone FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 2:02:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I suppose in order to prove that Ida's true father is Matson, we would need to find a birth certificate document in Finland. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 1:57:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I just did a copy and paste for JOY's entry's, so now I have the separate data to review in a word processor text. I see why Carolyn said they might have entered a true father as Matson in the marriage record. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 1:54:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I see Joy entered the marriage records for the Rintas adn this shows Ida as Ida Matson, age 16. Here the mother's name is spelled Susanna Riina. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 1:53:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn said the thing she wanted to find out was the REAL maiden name for Ida Sophia Rinta (married name) as the record states her father is Henry Matson, mother Susanna Runa. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 1:46:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi folks, I was hoping that Joy might have found something in her Scandinavian databases, too! FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 1:46:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Nancy - I hope Carolyn will join us this evening. Perhaps I should send her an e-mail as a reminder. FROM: Steve on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 1:45:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm just trying to catch up on the notes below to figure out what hasn't been covered. When your email came out, I shot an email off to my wife's sister as her husband is Finnish and still speaks the language. Thought he might be able to shed some light on patronymic naming differences between Finland and other countries. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 1:42:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Steve - I was hoping you'd join us as you will probably have a lot of ideas to help Carolyn, too. We were in here for a while one evening to help Carolyn get used to working the board. As you can see by the various notes, she did join us. FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:45:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Western Finnish Names The western cultural area was, as told above, closely connected to Sweden. Family names were not used in Sweden. People were identified by a combination of a given name and a father's name, a patronymic. A patronymic is formed by attaching an ending -son or -dotter to a given name (-poika and -tytär in Finnish; I use the Swedish forms because all sources in Finland are written in Swedish before the second half of 1800's). Thus "Olof Johansson" is "Olof, the son of Johan". In three generations there may be a chain Per Nilsson (grandfather) > Johan Persson (father) > Maria Johansdotter (daughter). Nilsson, Persson and Johansdotter are not family names but patronymics, not inheriting from one generation to the next one. When laws about family names were introduced in Finland and Sweden in the early 1900's, many individuals decided to make a patronymic to an inheriting family name. Thats why many of the Swedes today have family names ending in -son. During the second half of the 1800's and the beginning of the 1900's a majority of people in the western parts of Finland accepted family names. Many started to use the farm name as a family name. The genealogist may sometimes have difficulties to distinguish a farm name from a family name in old records because a farm name may be used in the same manner as a family name. The difference between a family name and a farm name is that family names are inherited to younger generations, while farm names change when individuals move from one farm to another. Farm names usually have an ending -la or -lä as in Anttila, Lukkarila and Takala. Many of the farm names originate in given names: Pekkala is a place where Pekka lives. It is usually impossible to find who gave his name to the farm. The name may have developed hundreds of years ago and the family may have moved away and been replaced by another family, while the original name of the farm has been in use all the time. There are are also examples of farms which got the name from some family coming as settlers from the eastern cultural area. Someone with the name Taskinen moved from the Savo area to northern Ostrobothnia, and settled on a farm which got the name Taskila. The original family name was forgotten after a couple of generations because it was uncommon with family names in that area, because everyone used a given name plus a patronymic. Some generations later the farm is sold and the new owners start to use a family name in the beginning of 1900's. They now choose the name Taskinen. The family name has been passed over to a family without any kinship to the original Taskinen family 300 years earlier. There are many variations of farm names, especially in Ostrobothnia, from where most of the Finns in North America descend. Names built up of two different parts as Koivuhakola, Tikanoja and Ojaharju are common. A separate group of names are the one where the first part of the name change and the second part is the same: Latvanikula, Alanikula; Ylänikula, Takanikula, Peränikula, Keskinikula, etc. There may have been a farm Nikula which was divided into several parts, then into smaller parts. There may be difficulties in proving a relationship between the inhabitants at the different Nikula farms, because the division may have been done during a period from which no written documents are found. Finnish Names: http://www.genealogia.fi/emi/art/article216e.htm FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:38:32 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Mountain View Cemetery Mullan, Shoshone County, Idaho Transcribed by Maggie Rail, © May 21, 2006 [ mrail@asisna.com Pakka, Harold R, b. 1925, d. 1936, s/w John R, Sec 7 R-2 #8 Pakka, John R, b. 1896, d. 1937, s/w Harold R, Sec 7 R-2 #7 1911-1951 Idaho Death Index - P surname (part 1 pa-pd) submitted by Vicki Barker Name Location of Death Death Cert Date of Birth Date of Death PAKKA, HAROLD WALLACE 100178 09/26/1925 08/23/1936 PAKKA, JOHN WALLACE 104697 08/16/1896 05/06/1937 It looks like Fanny remarried after John Pakka died: Washington, Spokane, Marriage Certificate #55836A 22 January 1938 at Spokane Einar Jalava of Mullan Idaho and Fanny Pakka of Mullan Idaho Witnesses: Luke Williams and Emil WIlliams (this is at Washington Digital Archives and has the image of the certificate) FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:12:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1920 Census says Pakka John, bro in law, 24, immigrated 1917, PA, Finn WWI Draft Registration John Pakka, 21 Vasa, Finland born Aug 16, 1897 Vasa Finland Native citizen of Finland father's birth place: Vasa Finland works for Federal Mag. Co, Mullan, Ida Nearest Relative: Ida Rinta, Winlock, Wash Blue eyes, light brown hair, medium height, stout June 5, 1918 Idaho Death Index, 1911-51 about PAKKA, JOHN Name: PAKKA, JOHN Year: 1937 Certificate Number: 104697 County of Death: Shoshone City: WALLACE Date of Death: 05/06/1937 Date of Birth: 08/16/1896 FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:10:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I had someone look up the marriage record on Ancestry.com (Canada) and here is the response: Ancestry.ca is acting goofy but I finally was able to get on and get what I believe is the information you're looking for. Here you go: Name: John Rinta Birth Place: Finland Age: 25 Father Name: Andrew Rinta Mother Name: Sanna Kraisa Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874 Spouse Name: Ida Matson Spouse's Age: 16 Spouse Birth Place: Finland Spouse Father Name: Henry Matson Spouse Mother Name : Susanna Riina Marriage Date: 17 May 1899 Marriage Place: Thunder Bay District Marriage County: Thunder Bay Source: Indexed by: Ancestry.com They also sent a jpeg file of the image FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:09:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Possible arrival for John Rinta New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Johann Rumt?? Name: Johann Rumt?? Arrival Date: 24 Sep 1890 Gender: Male Port of Departure: Bremen, Germany and Southampton, England Destination: United States of America Place of Origin: Mähren Ship Name: Elbe Search Ship Database: View the Elbe in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Port of Arrival: New York Line: 30 Microfilm Serial: M237 Microfilm Roll: M237_556 List Number: 1418 Port Arrival State: New York Port Arrival Country: United States FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:08:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's the site for searching the indexes of the Canadian censuses: http://automatedgenealogy.com/index.html And the site to look at the actual images once you find where the people lived: http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/1911/006003-100.01-e.html FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:08:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1911 Rinta Manta 22 Ontario Thunder Bay and Rainy River Port Arthur 30 32 49 Rinta Michael 26 Ontario Thunder Bay and Rainy River Port Arthur 30 32 48 URL for image: http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1911a/e081/e002022724.pdf 1911 Rinta Valter 26 Ontario Thunder Bay and Rainy River Port Arthur 30 40 24 URL for image: http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1911a/e081/e002022732.pdf FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:08:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here are the Rinta's in Port Arthur, Ontario (where Selma was born in 1900). Very likely relations: 1911 Surname Givens Age Province District Subdistrict Enumeration District # Page Line Rinta Argre 3/12 Ontario Thunder Bay and Rainy River Port Arthur 30 34 45 Rinta Hulda 32 Ontario Thunder Bay and Rainy River Port Arthur 30 34 43 Rinta Isaac 34 Ontario Thunder Bay and Rainy River Port Arthur 30 34 42 Rinta John 2 Ontario Thunder Bay and Rainy River Port Arthur 30 34 44 http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1911a/e081/e002022726.pdf FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:08:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1911 / British Columbia / Kootenay / 43 Slocan riding / page 11 INDEX TRANSCRIPTION 8 120 Rinta John M Head M Sep 1872 38 9 120 Rinta Ida F Wife M May 1883 28 10 120 Rinta Selma F Daughter S Apr 1900 11 11 120 Rinta Arvo M Son S Sep 1901 9 12 120 Rinta William M Son S Jul 1903 7 13 120 Rinta Violet F Daughter S Sep 1906 4 14 120 Rinta Lilia F Daughter S Apr 1910 1 Image Transcription 1911 British Columbia, District 9, Sub District 43, Enumeration District 9, Slocan Riding, Page 11 117/120 Rinta, John, Three Forks, m, head, m, Sept 1872, 38, Finland, 1890, Finnish, Canadian, Lutheran, Mine, 8-6-25, no, yes, no, silver mine Ida, Three Forks, f, wife, m, May 1883, 29, Finland, 1892, Finnish, Canadian, Lutheran Selma, Three Forks, f, daughter, single, Apr. 1900, 11, O, Finnish, Canadian, Lutheran Arvo, Three Forks, m, son, s, Sept 1901, 9, BC, Finnish, Canadian, Lutheran William, Three Forks, m, son, s, July 1903, 7, BC, Finnish, Canadian, Lutheran Violet, Three Forks, f, daughter, s, Sept 1906, 4, BC, Finnish, Canadian, Lutheran Lilia, Three Forks, f, daughter, s, Apr 1910, 1, BC, Finnish, Canadian, Lutheran Neighbor Matthew & Helen Ulrila (he's from Finland in 1892) http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1911a/e078/e001937538.pdf FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:07:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Vital Event Birth Registration Name: John William Rinta Event Date: 1903 7 10 (Yr/Mo/Day) Gender: male Event Place: Rossland Reg. Number: 1903-09-928125 B.C. Archives Microfilm Number: B13913 GSU Microfilm Number: 2116340 Vital Event Marriage Registration Groom Name: Ogden George Wood Bride Name: Ida Violet Rinta Event Date: 1930 7 14 (Yr/Mo/Day) Event Place: Vancouver Reg. Number: 1930-09-375307 B.C. Archives Microfilm Number: B13760 GSU Microfilm Number: 2074556 FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:07:21 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1901 Census Canada INDEX 135898 RINTA John 10 May 1872 M W GM Fin M 135899 RINTA A Ida 11 May 1883 F W Fin M 135900 RINTA Selma 10 May 1900 F W Ou S Census Details ID 135898 Surname RINTA, John Birth Date 10 May 1872 Birth Place Fin Sex M Age 28 Occupation GM Race Fi Nationality C Marital Status M Census Details ID 135899 Surname RINTA, A Ida Birth Date 11 May 1883 Birth Place Fin Sex F Age 17 Occupation Race Fi Nationality C Marital Status M Census Details ID 135900 Surname RINTA, Selma Birth Date 10 May 1900 Birth Place Ou Sex F Age 0.89 Occupation Race Fi Nationality C Marital Status S Ou = Ontario ________ Transcription of Image http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/020122_e.html but it is in "mr sid" format and it is difficult to work with Province/Territory: British Columbia District Name: YALE & CARIBOO District Number: 5 Sub-district Name: Kootenay (West/Ouest) - (Rossland Riding/Division Rossland) Sub-district Number: h-3 Schedule: 1 Notes: Rossland Reference: RG31 , Statistics Canada Microfilm Reel Number: T-6430 Finding Aid Number: 31-40 306/309 Rinta, John, m, w, head, m, May 10, 1872, 28, Finland, Year of Immigration to Canada: 1890, Year of Naturalization: 1890, Racial or Tribal Origin: Finn, Nationality: Canadian, Religion: Lutheran, Gold Miner, Mother tongue: Finn Ida, f, w, wife, m, May 11, 1883, 17, Finland, 1892, Finn, Canadian, Lutheran, Finn Selma, f, w, daughter, s, Mar 10, 1900, 1, Ont., Finn, Canadian, Lutheran, Finn 310 Ulvila, Malle, m, w, head, m, July 1, 1875, Finland, 1892, Finn, American, Lutheran, Gold Miner, Finn Helen, f, w, wife, m, Mar 16, 1883, 18, Finland, 1893, Finn, American, Lutheran, Finn FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:06:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1956 about Ida Sophia Rinta Name: Ida Sophia Rinta Arrival Date: Apr 1913 Age: 30 Birth Date: abt 1883 Birth Country: Russia Gender: Female Race/Nationality: Finnish Port of Arrival: Marcus, Washington, USA April 1913 Manifest Rinta, John Eric, 40, m, married, miner, yes, Canada, Finnish, Canada, Sandon, Kasls, BC, Canada, Friend, Wm E Zuricky, Wash, Winlop, yes, self, 4000, yes, 24 mo. 1905, Winlop Wash, 1905, Sto???, Derrick Bay, Winlop, Wash, No, No, No, No, Good, no, 5 7 1/2, lt, brn, blue, None, Place of birth: Finland, wassa, Seaport of landing: NY, 1890 May, Name of SS.:Albe, C N Ry, April 23 Rinta, Ida Sophia, 30, f, Married, none, yes, Canada, Finnish, Canada, Sandon, yes, Husband, yes, 2 wks 1909, Wash, 1909, with husband, No, No, No, No, Good, no, 5' 3", Lt, Brn, Blue, Scar center forehead, Russia, Kanhawa Port, Unknown, 1895, unknown, C N Ry, April 23 Rinta, Selma Susan, 13, f, single, none, yes, Canada, Finnish, Canada, Sandon, Yes, Father, yes, 2 wks 1909, Wash, 1909, with Parents, No, No, No, No, Good, no, lt, brn, blue, mole left temple, Canada, Port Arthur, Marcus, 1913 Apr 23, C N Ry, Apr 23 Rinta, Andrew Aron? Adolph, 11, m, single, none, yes, Canada, Finnish, Canada, Sandon, Yes, Father, yes, 2 wks 1909, Wash, 1909, with Parents, No, No, No, No, Good, no, LT, Lt brn, blue, none, Canada, Rossland, Marcus, 1913 Apr 23, C N Ry, Apr 23 Rinta, John William, 9, m, single, none, yes, Canada, Finnish, Canada, Sandon, Yes, Father, yes, 2 wks 1909, Wash, 1909, with Parents, No, No, No, No, Good, no, Lt, lt brn, blue, scar near rt eye, Canada, Rossland, Marcus, 1913 Apr 23, C N Ry, Apr 23 Rinta, Ida Violet, 6, f, single, none, yes, Canada, Finnish, Canada, Sandon, Yes, Father, yes, 2 wks 1909, Wash, 1909, with Parents, No, No, No, No, Good, no, LT, sandy, blue, scar rt side forehead, Canada, Rossland, Marcus, 1913 Apr 23, C N Ry, Apr 23 Rinta, Lilla Helen, 3, f, s, none, yes, Canada, Finnish, Canada, Sandon, No, with Parents, No, No, No, No, Good, no, Lt, Sandy, blue, none, Canada, Karls (or Karlo), Marcus, 1913 Apr 23, C N Ry, Apr 23 FROM: Joy on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 23:06:17 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Prescott, Lewis, Washington; Roll: 2507; Page: 3A; Enumeration District: 72; Image: 786.0. 10 April 1930 Winlock Toledo Highway 53/53 Rinta, John E, head m, e, 57, m, 26, Finland, Finland, Finland, Finnish, 1913, NA, Farmer, General Farm Ida S, wife, f, w, 46, m, 15, Finland, Finland, Finland, Finnish, 1913, NA FROM: diana on DATE-Aug 9, 2007 4:13:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bfrazer9&id=I38130 Has the following: ID: I38130 Name: Ida Sophi Bokka Sex: F _UID: A34067BCF84200468AA0BE7231F2DF492B09 Change Date: 10 JUL 2001 at 22:03:30 Marriage 1 John Erick Rinta Children Arvo Andrew Adolp Rinta b: 27 SEP 1901 in Rossland, B.C., CAN on Brenda Frazer's Home Page FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 2:56:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oops, I left the Netscape window open again, while I was away from the computer, but I'm happy to see feedback about what we've found so far. I haven't seen any clues about MATSON yet, tho. Will keep looking. FROM: Verneice on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:41:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat there is a Scandanavian Genealogy Society in mid Willamette Valley. Our CGGS used to trade newsletters with them. Do you know the name? FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:40:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks, PatB I will look for ship passenger lists. FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:38:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: About John (Bakka)Pakka 1930 ID census. A Frank Ollila listed as boarder. Ulvila's were close friends to the Rinta clan... could be a mispelling by the census taker Thanks again. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:38:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think this will give Carolyn an idea of what we do here. Perhaps someone else will join us Thursday evening so we can help you more! I'm going to have to leave. I'm washing clothes tonight and I have a load in the dryer all ready to hang up now. I'm going to say goodnight and see you all Thursday evening. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:36:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There might be something here. This is a link on the CCGS web site. Ship passenger lists: http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/onlinelists.html FROM: Verneice on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:34:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I don't know for sure Pat. I like to look at the chat room early to see what is going on. FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:33:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: About Ida Sophia Rinta. I am trying to find her name on ship records out of Canada, that is why I need to find out what her maiden name was for sure . Family lore has her as an illigetimate child sent to be a servant girl. John Pakka (her brother?) may have been a half brother. Anyone out there with experience in finding out about the ships coming into Canada c 1890's? thanks FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:29:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Verneice - we're just having a preliminary chat, preparing for Thursday evening. Are you coming to lunch Thursday? FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:25:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Nancy - what do you think? Since this is Finland, I thought maybe you would have some ideas about it. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:24:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Some people changed their names when they came here. Or maybe Henry Matson was a step father or someone else who raised Ida. FROM: carolynr2 on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:23:22 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Dear friends: Most of information I have documented, however, the finding of the death of John Pakka sounds like it must be grandmother's brother. that still leaves me with why did Ida sophia rinta list her father's name as Henry Matson when she was married in Ontario 1899? FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:20:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: By clicking on All Transcripts below, you will see where they are posted. Make a bookmark to it or a favorite of it and you will be able to find it again. Are you having fun reading the info? All Transcripts: http://www.rootsweb.com/~waccgs/p3424.htm FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:16:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn - to view the info, you will have to pull the page down with the "thingy" at the side. There will be a jump every time it tries to post and you'll have to start over again! Really frustrating at times. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:15:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: All of this information will be posted Thursday night, after we close the chat room, so you don't have to try to save it all now! Nancy and Jerry have found lots of information for you. I think you will be pleased. Nancy is here in Vancouver, Jerry Thompson lives in Colorado. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:14:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Carolyn - you made it! Now for the learning experience. You can enter information in the block at the bottom of the page, then click on Send Message to post it. FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:09:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Carolyn tried to come in but didn't know what to do so I said I would meet her here. She will be thrilled at all this great information you've found already! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:03:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Gnight Jerry! Hope all goes well! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:02:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thunder storm comming in. Must shut down. Bye FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:01:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Using Google.com, Searched for "PAKKA" and Meaning Matti Pakkala 1842-1916 Posted by: Andrew Rasanen Date: November 04, 2000 at 21:46:51 of 16 I am a grandson of Leena Nisula Laasanen (1886-1926) whose maiden name Nisula was originally Pakkala. My understanding is that Leena's father Matti Nisula (1842-1916), my great-grandfather, assumed the last name Nisula when he moved to a section of Toholampi, Finland, called Nisula. Before that, he lived in Veteli and his family name was Pakkala. The last name Pakkala is said to indicate that the farm where he lived was subject to frost which killed many of the crops. I don't know Finnish, but my dictionary says the word for frost is "pakkanen." Matti Pakkala/Nisula died in Gardner, Mass. I would like to know: (1) Is it legitimate to conclude that "pakkanen" could be shortened to "pakka" and be joined with the suffix "la" meaning "place of" to result in "pakkala" meaning "frosty place"? (2) Why would both names, Pakkala and Nisula, be current in the U.S.? Matti's 1916 death certificate lists his name as "Matti N. Pakkala" (N. for Nisula?) and his wife's obituary lists her as "Mrs. Maria Pakkala," yet their children used the surname Nisula. I know family names were fluid and residents of western Finland often took their family names from place names, so the names might change when they moved. But why would the older name still be used as a surname when a new one had presumably been adopted? (3) I would like to know more about the location in Veteli known as Pakkala. Thank you. Andrew Rasanen Pakkala Genforum: http://genforum.genealogy.com/pakkala/messages/1.html FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 1:00:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The name Pakkala keeps coming up, too. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:58:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There is another John Pakka in Puyallup with a WWI draft card. it is intereting to look at the information in the names. He is John Pakka. He lists his nearest relative as Fiijci Hietapakka in Himarika Pakkalakyli, Finland. Lots of Pakkas in that. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:56:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Mapquest map Showing Vaasa Finland Vaasa Finland map: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&country=FI&addtohistory=&city=v asa FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:49:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jerry, Joshua ELDER has his name on many land entries after the Rev. War. (not sure what that RANDOM entry might be) Joshua was especially responsible for ARMSTRONG CO PA area. Map showing Col. Joshua ELDER, deputy-Surveyor in Section #5: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/pa/county/allegh/deplands.htm His relatives of PAXTANG PA have very different DNA which I call VIKING, Haplogroup "I". FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:46:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Sounds like a nice place in the summer. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:45:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Maybe WASA FINLAND is VASA ? Using Google.com, searched WASA FINLAND found: Vasa: Vacations and Tourism Vaasa, in western Finland, is largely a coastal town. This town of approximately 58,000 inhabitants is referred to as the sunniest spot in the country. Though Vaasa lies along the coast, it is one of the driest regions of Finland. Summer is the best time to visit with temperatures averaging above 20°C. Winter is very cold and temperatures drop to below freezing point for most of the season. The first library of Finland was founded in Vaasa. Currently, the city has three universities and a large student population. Most of the original city was destroyed in a fire in 1852; only 24 buildings survived the fire. The city was then redesigned and reconstructed. Earlier, Vaasa's economy largely depended on the ship building industry and tar trade. Today, it is a flourishing industrial centre. http://www.paesionline.com/europe/finland/vasa/introduction.asp FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:44:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here is something for you: Where enrolled Book Vol. Page Date of Patent Name of Tract Patentee Acres Prs. Warrantee County P 7 231 Oct 17, 1786 Random Elder, Joshua 284 112 Dep. Cert. #42 Dist. #5 Westmoreland RG-17; Records of the Land Office; PATENT TRACT NAME INDEX, undated; {series #17.158} Image #203. Patent Tract Name Index for the P Series, 1781-1809. (3 volume) Volume 2, 1781-1794 (for Patent Books P-1 through P-20) FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:44:00 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here is something for you: Where enrolled Book Vol. Page Date of Patent Name of Tract Patentee Acres Prs. Warrantee County P 7 231 Oct 17, 1786 Random Elder, Joshua 284 112 Dep. Cert. #42 Dist. #5 Westmoreland RG-17; Records of the Land Office; PATENT TRACT NAME INDEX, undated; {series #17.158} Image #203. Patent Tract Name Index for the P Series, 1781-1809. (3 volume) Volume 2, 1781-1794 (for Patent Books P-1 through P-20) http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=1592&&PageID=259963&level =2&parentCommID=1592&menuLevel=Level_2&mode=2&in_hi_userid=2&cached=true FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:41:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Last Name: Rinta First Name: John Middle Name: Erik Alias Name: County: Lewis Document Type: Declaration of Intention Volume: 4 Document Number: 606 Date of Document: 22-April-1918 Date of Birth: 19-Sept-1872 Birthplace: Wasa Finland Place of Emigration: Three Fks BC Canada Date of Emigration: Port of Entry: Marcus WA Date of Entry to US: 10-April-1913 Spouse Name: Name of Children: Remarks: VolunteerNotes: Image does not exists. You may purchase a PHOTOCOPY of this image for $4.00 plus $1.00 service fee. Citation: To order a copy of an original record or find additional naturalization records not included in this database, email the State Archives Southwest Regional Branch at lweaver@secstate.wa.gov Database: Lewis County Naturalization Records. ONLINE. 2005. Washington Secretary of State. Transcribed and Proofread by Irma Houston, Stevenson, Washington. Available Online: http://www.digitalarchives.wa.gov Source: Declaration of Intention, 1917-1929. Olympia: State Archives Southwest Regional Branch. Original naturalization records held by State Archives Southwest Regional Branch. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:41:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jerry, I left my Netscape window up when I went to dinner in the Dining Room, so now I'm back! Thanks for the entries! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:38:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Death Certificates of Finns in Lewis County, Washington, 1907-1947 RINTA, IDA SOPHIA -- Born May 11, 1883, Finland. Died Jan. 14, 1940, Winlock, Wash. Cause of death: probably coronary thrombosis. Wife of John E. Rinta. Father: John Pakka. Burial Jan. 18, 1940, Winlock, Wash. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:29:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Idaho Death Index, 1911-51 Idaho Death Index, 1911-51 Name: PAKKA, JOHN Year: 1937 Certificate Number: 104697 County of Death: Shoshone City: WALLACE Date of Death: 05/06/1937 Date of Birth: 08/16/1896 FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:25:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Parrents birthplace of both he and Fanny is isted as Finland. It has her as coming to the US in 1920. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:21:46 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here he is in 1930, indexed as Bakka: Name: John Bakka Home in 1930: Mullan, Shoshone, Idaho Age: 34 Estimated birth year: abt 1896 Birthplace: Finland Relation to Head of House: Head Spouse's name: Fanny Race: White Occupation: Education: Military Service: Rent/home value: Age at first marriage: Parents' birthplace: View image Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age John Bakka 34 Fanny Bakka 27 Harrold Bakka 4 6/12 Frank Ollila 39 FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:09:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: This is him. He lists his nearest relative as Ida Rinta: World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 Name: John Pakka City: Not Stated County: Shoshone State: Idaho Birthplace: Finland Birth Date: 16 Aug 1897 Roll: 1452222 FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 8, 2007 0:00:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Lots of Pakkas in the 1910 census: Last Name First Name Census Year County Birth Place Gender Marital Status Image Pakkala Arvid 1910 Lewis Finland Unknown Unknown N/A Pakkala Louise W 1910 Lewis Finland Unknown Unknown N/A Pakkala Isaac W 1910 Lewis Oregon Unknown Unknown N/A Pakkala George F 1910 Lewis Washington Unknown Unknown N/A Pakkala Carl A 1910 Lewis Washington Unknown Unknown N/A Pakkala Martha 1910 Lewis Washington Unknown Unknown N/A Pakkala Oliver C 1910 Lewis Washington Unknown Unknown N/A Pakkala Leo O 1910 Lewis Washington Unknown Unknown N/A FROM: jerryt on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 23:57:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Nancy. How are you this afternoon? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 23:28:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: John Rikhard Pakka - Lewis County Naturalization Record Last Name: Pakka First Name: John Middle Name: Rikhard Alias Name: County: Lewis Document Type: Declaration of Intention Volume: 5 Document Number: 1280 Date of Document: 16-Dec-1927 Date of Birth: 16-Aug-1896 Birthplace: Waasa Finland Place of Emigration: Santon Canada Date of Emigration: Port of Entry: Oroville Washington Date of Entry to US: 5-Aug-1916 Spouse Name: Fannie Name of Children: Remarks: VolunteerNotes: Image does not exists. You may purchase a PHOTOCOPY of this image for $4.00 plus $1.00 service fee. Citation: To order a copy of an original record or find additional naturalization records not included in this database, email the State Archives Southwest Regional Branch at lweaver@secstate.wa.gov Database: Lewis County Naturalization Records. ONLINE. 2005. Washington Secretary of State. Transcribed and Proofread by Irma Houston, Stevenson, Washington. Available Online: http://www.digitalarchives.wa.gov Source: Declaration of Intention, 1917-1929. Olympia: State Archives Southwest Regional Branch. Original naturalization records held by State Archives Southwest Regional Branch. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 22:30:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Using Google.com, searched for "JOHN PAKKA" found also: Death Certificates of Finns in Lewis County, Washington, 1907-1947 at http://www.genealogia.fi/emi/emi3d20o4e.htm RINTA, IDA SOPHIA -- Born May 11, 1883, Finland. Died Jan. 14, 1940, Winlock, Wash. Cause of death: probably coronary thrombosis. Wife of John E. Rinta. Father: John Pakka. Burial Jan. 18, 1940, Winlock, Wash. RINTA, JOHN ERIC -- Born September 11, 1872, Finland. Died Dec. 26, 1942, Winlock, Wash. Cause of death: cerebral hemorrhage; hypertension; arteriosclerosis. Widower of Ida Sophia. Poultryman. Informant: A. Rinta, Winlock, Wash. Burial Dec. 28, 1942, Winlock, Wash. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 22:23:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1920 Name: John Pakka Home in 1920: Prescott, Lewis, Washington Age: 24 years Estimated birth year: abt 1896 Birthplace: Finland Relation to Head of House: Brother-in-law Father's Birth Place: Finland Mother's Birth Place: Finland Marital Status: Single Race: White Sex: Male Year of Immigration: 1917 Able to read: Yes Able to Write: Yes Image: 507 Household Members: Name Age John Rinta 47 Ida Rinta 36 Selma Rinta 19 William Rinta 16 Violet Rinta 13 Lilia Rinta 9 John Pakka 24 Source Citation: Year: 1920;Census Place: Prescott, Lewis, Washington; Roll: T625_1933; Page: 6B; Enumeration District: 137; Image: 507. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 22:19:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I just looked at the handwritten entry for 1920, and found that John PAKKA age 24 is listed as brother-in-law! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 22:11:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1920 - Washington Name: Ida Rinta Home in 1920: Prescott, Lewis, Washington Age: 36 years Estimated birth year: abt 1884 Birthplace: Finland Relation to Head of House: Wife Spouse's name: John Father's Birth Place: Finland Mother's Birth Place: Finland Marital Status: Married Race: White Sex: Female Year of Immigration: 1913 Able to read: Yes Able to Write: Yes Image: 507 Household Members: Name Age John Rinta 47 Ida Rinta 36 Selma Rinta 19 William Rinta 16 Violet Rinta 13 Lilia Rinta 9 John Pakka 24 Source Citation: Year: 1920;Census Place: Prescott, Lewis, Washington; Roll: T625_1933; Page: 6B; Enumeration District: 137; Image: 507. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 22:09:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: RE: QUERY for Ida Sophia RINTA Starting out with Canada entry: 1901 Name: Ida Rinta Gender: Female Marital Status: Married Age: 17 Birth Date: 11 May 1883 Birthplace: Finland Relation to Head of House: Wife Spouse's name: John Immigration Year: 1892 Racial or Tribal Origin: Finn (Finnish) Nationality: Canadian Religion: Lutheran Province: British Columbia DISTRICT: Yale and Cariboo District Number: 5 Sub-District: Kootenay (West/Ouest), (Rossland Riding/Division Rossland) Sub-District Number: H-3 Family Number: 309 Page: 25 Household Members: Name Age John Rinta 28 Ida Rinta 17 Selma Rinta 1 FROM: PatB on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 21:22:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Just checking to make sure this posted as it should. Looking good! See you Thursday evening. FROM: Nancy & Pat on DATE-Aug 7, 2007 21:22:01 GMT-DATE EMAIL: patbauer@pacifier.com MESSAGE: Nancy Elder Petersen and Patricia McKee Bauer, along with several regular visitors, will be staffing the GenChat room beginning about 6:45 p.m. Thursday evening. We close the door about 9:00 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. We have lots of visitors who will give you a willing helping hand with your genealogy brick walls. You can enter questions or answers at any time but we hope you will be able to join us when we are open for discussions. BRICK WALL: Carolyn Womack Rinta wrote: "Following is my current brick wall if the group would care to tackle; it would help if some are old time Finns! The problem is finding the REAL maiden name of my husband's paternal grandmother; married name, Ida Sophia Rinta,. with that perhaps I can find her in ship records etc. and trace her family in Finland. Known data is: born: May 11, 1883, unknown place, Finland Immigration date unknown, but probably to Canada as a child. marriage date: July 4th, 1899 (note young age) at: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Record (documented) states father as Henry Matson (clerks spelling) mother, Susanna Runa 5 children born in British Columbia mining area no record of naturalization; probably came in under husband. Family moved to Winlock, Lewis, USA c 1914 !920 census lists a younger brother living with the Rinta's at Winlock by the name of John Pakka. He later filed for citizenship papers but cannot find proof that he obtained citizenship; nor does his name come up again. I cannot access 1930 census. If someone out there understands the Finnish naming system and could help me it would be much appreciated." Please feel free to come into GenChat anytime and post a query. The visitors love to have a challenge and welcome your "brickwall" problems. If you don't send us something, you'll continue working on our little problems! Please click on the "log-out" button (lower right) before you leave. Meanwhile, you can see our past transcripts by clicking below and following the links to the postings. Past transcripts: http://www.rootsweb.com/~waccgs/p3424.htm