September 27, 2007 Remember to begin reading this transcript from the bottom to the top! FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:58:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looks like we might as well close down for the night. Charles can't be here this week and we're being mighty quiet. I think I'll sign off now and grab the transcript so I can get it posted. I'm going to say - goodnight all - it's been fun! See you next week. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:50:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have a big bunch of stone photos to post in Mother Joseph, Camas and Evergreen Memorial Gardens cemeteries. I'm in the midst of renaming them now and will resize them after that. It all takes so long! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:50:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: December 17, 1989 Bethlehem Baptist Church John Piper, Pastor How to Become a Child of God (John 1:9-13) ...He came to his own possession, his own domain, the house of humanity that he had built for a dwelling place. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:48:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Thanks for fixing that! FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:46:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I changed some of the codes last week and hoped this would enable people to see all of the transcript when they enter late - guess it worked. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:45:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ryal Thomas also there: 1905 -1974 FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:45:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That lady would have been within the age. I wonder what the "Child of God" means? FROM: Steve on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:44:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat: Yes, I can view it all, but it would take me longer to read then the time we have left before closing. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:44:03 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Evergreen Cemetery has Nancy Beaver Thomas 1905-1986: http://www.rootsweb.com/~waclacem/EvergreenMemorial/thomasnb.jpg" FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:42:58 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello KatieB - what can we help you with this evening? FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:42:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That Nancy Thomas would be too young. This lady in the picture (taken in 1955) looked to be about 60 or so at the time. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:41:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Steve - are you able to see the transcript from the beginning? Suzanne found some info for Linda. And Dorothy posted one item, too. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:40:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Social Security Number: 567-46-6654 First Name: Nancy Middle Name: A Last Name: Thomas Suffix: Birthdate: 10/31/1937 Deathdate: 07/17/1994 Verify/Proof: Last Residence: Vancouver,WA, 98685 FROM: Steve on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:40:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Earlier this week, I found a 2nd cousin of my mother alive (at age 82), living in southern CA, and willing to exchange genealogy data. He had posted an answer to an inquiry that I'd made on GenForum over 7 years ago. We've been swapping data ever since. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:37:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Is there a Nancy Thomas in a cemetery list? FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:34:43 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That might be the name for the "Mrs. Thomas." The picture was taken in 1955. FROM: Steve on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:33:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Don't know. I've had on ongoing issue with them for the past couple of weeks, so this was just another episode. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:33:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: A story in 1956 about WILBUR HALLAUER and the League of Women Voters in Vancouver, who met at Mrs. Nancy Thomas house with neighbor Mrs. Lois North.... FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:31:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Was it just your DSL or the whole area around you Steve? FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:31:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Steve FROM: Steve on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:30:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Sorry I'm late, but my DSL service went down at 6:12 this evening and I've been working with Qwest DSL Repair trying to get it up again. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:29:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: No Nancy - I don't remember exactly where it was located. That's what I'm trying to find out from Tony Bacon. It was somewhere (I think) east of Lieser Road but not positive. He sent me a photo of the house - it was grand! Huge and mansion is the only word that describes it. A REAL mansion. Maybe it was east of Andresen Road - just can't remember. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:26:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, Do you have the full address? FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:20:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'm trying to solve a mystery about an huge old home in Vancouver. The message was posted in the CCGS guestbook and I had the writer send me a photo of it. He said he had some negatives which were from the Oregon Journal which went out of business a long time ago. The house (actually a mansion) sat overlooking the Columbia River and I remember it but not the exact location. It seems there was a problem with it and it was going to be torn down or moved - but don't remember for sure. There was a "Mrs. Thomas" in some of the photos. Perhaps she was the owner. I've sent a note to Tony Bacon of the "Daily Insider" since he's lived here forever, too and lives in the area where the house is/was. FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:11:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: If any one wants to get ahold of me you can by using this address. rpender60@peoplepc.com I going off now. My wife and I want to call my grandson who is 17 today. Thanks for all of this information, I'll print it up later. Good night to all. Richard FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:11:18 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: 1850 United States Federal Census Name: C W Pender Age: 54 Estimated birth year: abt 1796 Birth Place: North Carolina Gender: Male Home in 1850(City,County,State): Edgecombe, North Carolina Occuption: Merchant Lucy 33 b. NC also 2 mae children 5 and 1 month. Can't read the names. FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:07:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My granddad's father was a son from Peninah Gardner. His name Araunah. We know there was a another son, but we have no in information on him FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:03:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: We are not sure where they lived, or what occupation he held. Most likely a Farmer. We were not able to get a census or land deed information on them. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:02:24 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: North Carolina Marriage Collection, 1741-2004 Name: Peninah Gardner Gender: Female Spouse: Cullen Pender Spouse Gender: Male Marriage Date: 6 Apr 1851 Marriage County: Edgecombe Marriage State: North Carolina Source Vendor: FHL microfilm # ????? Source: Record of this marriage may be found in a book at Notes: Cullen Pender married Peninah Gardner on Apr 06, 1851 in Edgecombe, NC FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 3:01:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry. This Cullen W. Pender was born to late to be the one we have. The C.W. we are related to was born about 1814? FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:59:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: We do know that Cullen Wright had two male children by first wife, but don't know much about them? FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:58:06 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: North Carolina Death Collection, 1908-1996 North Carolina Death Collection, 1908-1996 Name: Cullen W Pender Death Date: 31 Jul 1940 Death County: Wayne Death State: North Carolina Death Age: 84 Birth Date: 1856 Race: White Source: NC State Archives. North Carolina Deaths, 1908-67 FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:56:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My dad was born December 5, 1905 at Kilford,N.C. at home. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:55:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: North Carolina Marriage Bonds, 1741-1868 North Carolina Marriage Bonds, 1741-1868 Groom: Cullen W Pender Bride: Peninah Gardner Bond_Date: 02 Apr 1851 Bond #: 000044723 Marriage Date: 06 Apr 1851 Level Info: North Carolina Marriage Bonds, 1741-1868 ImageNum: 002838 County: Edgecombe Record #: 02 147 Bondsman: W S Hunter Witness: John Norfleet Performed By: W. E. Spiers, Justice of the Peace FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:55:31 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry you are right. Jessie Brown is my grandmother's maiden name. FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:54:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Peninah Gardner. Is related to the movie actress Ava Gardner. My grandmother always told us the they visited the Gardner Family and remember seeing Ava as a child. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:54:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Name Birth Date Gender Birth County Parent1 Parent2 Richard Cullen Pender Jr. 1905 Bertie Richard Cullen Pender Jesse Brown FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:52:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: View Record Name Birth Date Marriage Date Date of Death Spouse's name Father Mother View Record Bradley, Lucy Bef 1820 Jan 6, 1836 Cullen Pender Willis Bradley View Record Pender, Cullen Bef 1815 Jan 6, 1836 Aft 1850 Lucy Bradley View Record Pender, Cullen 1855 Aft 1860 William Pender, Sr. Elizabeth View Record Pender, Cullen W. Bef 1840 Apr 6, 1851 Penninah Gardner FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:51:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Cullen Wright Pender was married two times. First one is, Lucy Bradly the second was Peninah Gardner. FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:50:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Husband CULLIN PENDER Birth: Christening: Marriage: 05 JAN 1836 , Edgecombe, North Carolina Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wife LUCY BRADLEY Birth: Christening: Marriage: 05 JAN 1836 , Edgecombe, North Carolina Death: Burial: FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:49:44 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I see a web entry: Husband Charles (Charley ?) Pender Born: 10 JAN 1855 - Whitakers (Edgecombe Co.) ? NC Marr: ABT. 1880 - Edgecombe Co. NC ? Died: 2 JUN 1925 - Ocala (Marion Co.) Fla. Father: Cullen Wright Pender Mother: Peninah Gardner Other Spouses: Wife William Ann ? Born: 10 AUG 1857 - Whitakers (Edgecombe Co.) ? NC Died: BET. 27 MAY 1924 - 1925 - Ocala (Marion Co.) Fla. Father: Mother: Other Spouses: Children 1. David L. Pender Born: APR 1880 - NC Died: - 2. George D. Pender Born: ABT. 1884 - NC Died: - 3. Willian J. Pender Born: ABT. 1886 - NC Died: - 4. Ellie (Ellwood ?) Pender Born: 1 OCT 1887 - Ocala, Fla Marr: 1910 - Mary Nehlsen Died: 23 FEB 1963 - Brooklyn NY 5. Charles Pender Born: ABT. 1888 - Died: - 6. Eugene Walter Pender Born: 1 OCT 1890 - ? Marr: - Helen Mae Dotts Died: 3 MAY 1956 - ? 7. Lennie Ma Pender Born: NOV 1898 - Died: - http://www.philkiernan.com/family_history/geno_tree/gp10.htm FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:49:12 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Husband CULLEN W. PENDER Pedigree Birth: Christening: Marriage: 06 APR 1851 , Edgecombe, North Carolina Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wife PENINAH GARDNER Pedigree Birth: Christening: Marriage: 06 APR 1851 , Edgecombe, North Carolina Death: Burial: FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:48:13 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Soc. Sec. Death Index: Name: Beulah M. Pender SSN: 244-38-8018 Last Residence: 27105 Winston Salem, Forsyth, North Carolina Born: 10 Mar 1922 Died: 14 Dec 2006 State (Year) SSN issued: North Carolina (Before 1951 ) FROM: Ken Hobby on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:47:14 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Goodnight all and thank you for all the interesting chats. Ken FROM: Susan on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:45:59 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Richard---I just counted eleven Penders in the Winston-Salem phone book. Don't know if any are your kin or not of course. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:45:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Social Security Death Index Name: Allena Pender SSN: 239-48-3732 Last Residence: 27864 Pinetops, Edgecombe, North Carolina, United States of America Born: 18 Mar 1906 Last Benefit: 27864 Pinetops, Edgecombe, North Carolina, Died: Aug 1990 State (Year) SSN issued: North Carolina (1951 ) FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:44:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My cousins and I last Oct. went to all librarys and court houses in Edcombe Co. and located some information but we lack information that connects us to my Great great granddad Cullen Wright Pender. FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:41:36 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I am in hopes of getting a subscription to Ancestry.Com. This winter and just sit back and see what I can get from it? FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:40:33 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Have you checked the census records for those areas Richard? FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:39:57 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Richard C. Pender Sr. Mrs Jessie B. Pender. My Dad Richard C. Pender Jr. FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:38:39 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My Grand Parents, always told me the Pender family had live at the following places in North Carolina. Winston-Salem, Scotland Neck,Durham, Kilford, Rocky Mount Raliegh,And especially the co. of Edgecomb. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:35:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Richard - how about telling us the names of your kin that lived in Winston-Salem, NC. Maybe Susan can help you with something. FROM: Richard Pender on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:35:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Good evening to all. Just trying to get my mind on genelogy. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:34:11 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Ken, Thanks! I should look up those entries on the net again, too. NancyP FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:33:52 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Richard - I told Susan you were going to try to join us this evening. She's here tonight. FROM: Susan on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:33:49 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: My husband (deceased) crossed the channel on D-Day+21. Thankfully it wasn't the actual D-DAY. So he suvived, but cancer got him. I've been watching The War also. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:33:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Sent info about different SCOTTISH names and DNA: >I recently paid my online membership to the TAY VALLEY FAMILY HISTORY SOCIETY of Scotland (includes PERTH), and today I received my first "JOURNAL" for February 2007. One of the articles has info about changing names in the clans. I found the reference also online. "The Legacy of George Fraser Black" [1866-1948] From Clan Fraser webpages, at http://www.clanfraser.ca/sept.htm ..."method used by chiefs of clans to increase the number of followers bearing their name was to bribe poor parents with a 'bow o' meal' to substitute in respect of their children the clan surname for their own. An old Gaelic saying around Beauly illustrative of this is Frisealach am boll a mine, 'Frasers of the boll of meal,' indicating that some Bissets had changed their name from Bisset to Fraser for that reason. We have records of this among Farquharsons, Forbeses, and Gordons..." FROM: Ken Hobby on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:30:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Wow Nancy! I just watched the WAR segments on TV where it showed and talked about the Philppines and specifically the Santo Thomas concentration camp! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:30:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I did try to tell the new ELDER research about the DNA discoveries, which are different than the old "legends" of VA and PA families. They had seen the names in those places, so just assumed they were connected. The DNA shows very different lines. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:27:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's the new PETER ELDER of VA family found: > TRACED BACK in database, to: > # Name: William Elder > # Given Name: William > # Surname: Elder > # Sex: M > # Birth: Abt 1688 > # Death: 25 Apr 1754 in North Farnham Parish, Richmond, Virginia > # Will: 3 Feb 1755 > # Note: Campbell County, Virginia, > > Father: Peter Elder b: Bet 1663 and 1670 > Mother: Elizabeth ? b: 1666 > > Marriage 1 Ann ? b: Abt 1692 in Richmond, Virginia > * Married: Abt 1711 > > Children > 1. Joseph Elder b: 16 Sep 1731 in Richmond, Virginia FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:26:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Jerry, No more concerts outside for the Fall/Winter. All will be inside now. I can't hear them from the Dining Room location!! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:24:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Howdy Nancy, any concert tonight? FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:23:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Our CCGS members will be leaving for Salt Lake City Sunday (or before if they are driving). The weather there has been warm, too. It's an unusual year for weather all over the place. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:22:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Jerry! FROM: jerryt on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:21:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: No snow yet Judy, still in the 70s daytime and 40s at night. Hi all! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:21:34 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Here's the one I got connected to the PETER ELDER line this week! He's very happy! ELDER query: >Most of our family records were destroyed during WW II in the Philippines after we were interned by the Japanese in Santo Tomas Concentration Camp. What remains is minimal and often difficult to read. .... FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:20:02 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Evening Jerry...any snow in CO yet? FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:18:50 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I'll give you her e-mail address - be right back. FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:18:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: But aren't you amazed how many people that "aren't interested in genealogy" always manage to seek us out to answer questions about where to find a person/place or something about their ancestors? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:18:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy, Glad you are having good luck with the e-mail queries. I've been so happy when they scan an article, and send the whole text so quick! FROM: Ken Hobby on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:18:01 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I would like to make contact with Joy but I don't have a clue what her e mail or telephone contact is. I assume she is also a musician? FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:16:55 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I have been using the ask a librarian for WA and getting great results. Great way to get obits, etc from places we might now be able to research in the state of WA FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:15:45 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That's the truth Susan - it's very habit forming! FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:15:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I don't remember..but there are lots of family in MN, so maybe there. FROM: Susan on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:14:53 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat--Connie says genealogy isn't a hobby--it's an obsession!! Ha! FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:14:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy Riley said Joy was headed east to do some research - not moving, just a researching vacation. FROM: Ken Hobby on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:13:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: No I do not know where Joy is going? Do you mean she will be leaving Vancouver? FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:11:42 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That sounds like a lot of fun for Joy. Do you know where she's going? FROM: Ken Hobby on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:11:25 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Oh I have made a little progress on tracing my DNA family The Shorts. thanks to everyone especially Joy Thanks to the Librarian back in The Belleville Ill library I received a death notice of Charles Short and in there was mentionof his son Charles Short the 2nd (an attorney in Chicago) and his son Charles Short the 3rd. I found out then an obituary of Charles Short the 2nd but I am having trouble going any farther. But, I have made inroads form 1930 to 1952 FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:10:38 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That sounds great Susan. It's amazing how we can get replies after eons in Genforum or elsewhere. That's why it pays to keep one e-mail address forever! FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:10:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Heard from Joy that she is headed back east to do some research on family so probably won't be with us tonite. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:09:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: RE: KINNEY CEMETERY article mentions the SALEM WITCH Trials. I found the original transcript online at University of Virginia, so figured out that my ancestor, HENRY KINNE, was speaking on behalf of the accused witch. I posted links on my WITCH/KINNE webpage at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~nancyelder/witch.htm FROM: Susan on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:09:08 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat---Just heard from Connie. They had a posting on a genforum in 2001 and someone picked up on it in Ca just now. Seems he's a decendent of Nelson McKee. Seems he is an out of wedlock child but recently took a DNA test to determine his lineage, so they are going hot and heavy with him. But they are getting ready to go to Botetourt, VA soon for that genealogy fair and do research on James and Lydia. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:06:10 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Ken, Great! Tell us some good news! FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:06:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy - I don't know how long it will be before we can drive down there again. Don still isn't driving but the heel is healing quite nicely now. We see the nurse at the Wound Clinic tomorrow. He's beginning to want to go to some places so that's a good sign. FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:05:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There are a whole batch of Groats buried in Brush Prarie too...they may be related to my Seattle Groats ..but not sure how far to chase the Groat line...Am working Haven, Groat married into that line. FROM: Ken Hobby on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:05:15 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Nancy I've been working as hard as a one arm paperhanger FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:04:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Susan - we've been busy chatting about "stuff" here this evening. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:03:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: There are four Groat's buried in the Sacred Heart Cemetery. Bernard, Ellen, Francis & William J. FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:03:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat,We are a couple miles off the main hwy...you take the Sheridan-willamina by-pass and the lst right (before the mini mart) is cherry Hill...clear to the top...2nd set of mail boxes..private road..clear to the end. COme visit before we move again! We are past McMinnville and Spruce goose and on the way to sprit Mt. Casino! and Lincoln City FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:03:16 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Judy - did you find your Groat's here? What was the first name? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:02:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Susan, How are you this evening!? FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:02:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Ken, How are you doing? I've been working hard with my ELDER DNA participants this week. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:01:27 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Ken - it's been a long time since you've been here. Nice to see you again. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:01:23 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Also, More good news from my KINNEY DNA cousin, who has been quoted again for her DNA reports. I'm happy to hear that the New England HGS newsletter picked it up! See: From:"Georgia Kinney Bopp" gkbopp808@gmail.com To:genealogy- dna@rootsweb.com Subject:Re: [DNA] DNA Helps Get Past Brickwall >I didn't know Megan Bard's newspaper article was mentioned in the NEHGS newsletter. Thanks for the post. Yes, Tom and I will be at the Houston DNA Conference and look forward to seeing everyone there. >I researched the line for eight years before my father's Y-DNA gave me the first clue (in 2002) that I was somehow related to the early Salem, MA line. Just last year we finally made the actual connection - thanks to hard work and help from others. I'm working on the documentation now. >Ann Turner (founder of this list and DNA author) and Jim Bullock (current admin) are also descendants of the MA line. I recently heard from Rick Sterling,St*rling DNA admin, that he too descends from this line. >Our recent adventures included a visit to Ovid, Seneca Co., NY, and Griswold, New London Co., CT. The CT folks contacted the press about our visit hoping to create awareness of the need to care for the old cemeteries. This resulted in two articles in the local paper - the one about the DNA connection (picked up by the NEHGS) and another about the cemeteries (I'm including both links here for the archives): The Day - Griswold, CT By Megan Bard Published on 9/24/2007 DNA Helps Get To The Roots Of The Problem Science adds dimension to researching ancestry http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e8a3a0de-cdd1-4059-9cca-401853e35927 Family Cemetery Needs Gentle Consideration http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=84010799-98ae-44a3-b0ee-5f06e16d2b98 Georgia Kinney Bopp Kinney & Variations Y-DNA Project Admin FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 2:00:54 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Evening Ken FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:59:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The Groat I was looking for was suppose to be buried in Ridgefield, but think someone was wrong, but "my" Groat family was from King County....actually Mercer Island. Even a point of land named for them. FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:58:41 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: We are suppose to have rain too, but it was a lovely day, no clouds until late afternoon...walked (1/2 mile) to the mail box without a sweater. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:58:07 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Groat sounds like an old Ridgefield name from long ago. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:57:40 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: September ELDER SUMMARY: ELDER DNA kits are now divided into more than 5 separate groups by their DNA matches, 1. FRANKLIN CO PA group-- 20 matching entries Includes my brother and other known descendants and relatives of "ROBERT ELDER d. 1807 FRANKLIN CO PA." Also includes 4 descendants of "GEORGE ELDER, d. 1800 Bedford Co PA," and one known descendant of "DAVID ELDER and MARGERY STEWART" - FRANKLIN CO PA. (Those 3 Rev. War Soldiers could be brothers.) Others matching: JAMES ELDER SR. of Clarion Co PA JOHN ELDER, Mercer Co PA JOHN ELDER, Beaver Co PA JAMES AND JOHN ELDER of RANDOLPH CO NC ANDREW R. ELDER- March 15,1795 -July 1854 in Alexander County, NC JOHN ELDER, res. Iredell Co NC 1800 SAMUEL ELDER, Sevier Co TN JACOB ELDER d. 1818 Lincoln Co KY 2. GLASGOW group-- 4 Newly traced Descendants from Scotland. (Not matching other ELDER lines) 3. PAXTANG PA group-- 6 entries ANCESTOR and RELATIVE: "ROBERT ELDER, b. 1679 Scotland-- d. PAXTANG PA" (his son "Rev. John ELDER of PAXTANG") Excellent Descendant's paper trail with DNA to match this very different "I = VIKING HAPLOGROUP" "Robert Scott ELDER" --his ELDER family still lives in ELDERS RIDGE PA--they have an ELDER family BIBLE to prove he is the 10th ROBERT in the PAXTANG line. (No match (0%) with Franklin Co PA to 20 generations) (ELDER and STEWART) I1c Y-search.org - 66/67 marker matches Elder (CA9R5) Stuart (27JHT), Stewart (7NV2N), Stewart (XTCGF), Stewart (KZH3S), Stewart (64/67) (P4WPK) at http://tinyurl.com/ytv3zk 4. PETER ELDER of VA group-- 6 entries Excellent paper trails for these 6 matching entries. 5. WILLIAM ELDER (Catholic of Frederick Co MD): 2 entries Excellent paper trail for these 2 matching entries. Other ELDER researchers have known CATHOLIC paper trails. 6. More Different ELDER DNA in file which doesn't match any ELDER, some of them in Scotland! FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:57:37 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Judy. How far are you from the highway in Sheridan? We go that way when we go to Lincoln City. Is the prison in your back yard? FROM: Riley on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:57:30 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: evening ladies! Pat, needed to check out the name Groat and really helpful to use the cemetery records... FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:56:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: I think Linda plans on joining us this evening. I agree - it always helps to have them "on board" so we can ask more questions. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:56:09 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi Judy, Glad to see you this evening. I'm looking forward to the rain, so I won't have to water the garden pots tomorrow! It really doesn't take long, as I try to remember to do it on my morning walks. But sometimes I forget, then remember after I get back and take my shoes off! FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:55:04 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: That sounds like great progress in your DNA project. That makes genealogy doubly interesting for you as you put these lines together. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:54:51 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, I hope the BRICKWALL folks will all login again so we can get feedback from their different entries. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:53:47 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Looks like our rain is returning this evening. It's going to seem strange after being so dry for so long! FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:53:28 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat, I've been working hard this week with the new participants in the ELDER DNA project. Found a whole new section to connect with the "PETER ELDER of VIRGINIA" group. I keep trying to summarize, so especially new researchers can see we have divided the DNA lines, which often have been listed together in the old histories of PA, and elsewhere. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:52:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: The things that are found by our "GenChatters" are always so interesting. I always wish I could be related to to the folks they find. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:51:29 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hello Nancy - Suzanne Shatto has posted some information about our brickwall for this evening. Also, Dorothy Wear was in earlier and posted some info which might help her. FROM: Nancy Elder Petersen on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:50:48 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Hi folks, Thanks to everyone who posted info for the BrickWall Query! FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 1:41:35 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Thanks to Dorothy and Suzanne for posting the information for Linda. I hope this will be of help to her. And I hope she will be able to join us this evening. FROM: suzanne shatto on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 16:12:56 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: mahala's maiden name was not williams. williams is a married name. Year: 1850; Census Place: District 2, Union, Kentucky; Roll: M432_220; Page: 464; Image: 174. enumerated august 2, 1850 by a. i. w. thompson line 10, dwelling 62, household 61 mahaley williams, age 40, white female, b. kentucky charles williams, age 9, white male, b. kentucky daniel wiliams, age 6, white male, b. kentucky j. b. williams, age 5, white male, b. kentucky Year: 1840; Census Place: , Union, Kentucky; Roll: 125; Page: 26. alfred patton, 1 male 10-15, 1 male 20-30, 3 females 5-10 i don't see a female that might be married to alfred. Year: 1860; Census Place: , Webster, Kentucky; Roll: M653_399; Page: 0; Image: 563. you should correct this index as well: Name: Mahala Pattent Age in 1860: 50 Birth Year: abt 1810 Birthplace: Kentucky Home in 1860: Webster, Kentucky Gender: Female Post Office: Clay Value of real estate: View image Household Members: Name Age A L Pattent 52 Mahala Pattent 50 Sally Pattent 8 Daniel Williams 16 James B Williams 15 post office clay enumerated july 20, 1860 by p. j. clayton line 16, dwelling 727, household 722 a. l. patten, age 52, male, blacksmith, blank real estate, $900 personal property, b. kentucky mahala, age 50, female, housekeeper, b. kentucky, cannot read or write sally, age 8, female, b. kentucky daniel williams, age 16, male, farming, b. kentucky james b., age 15, male, b. kentucky Year: 1870; Census Place: District 5, Webster, Kentucky; Roll: M593_503; Page: 253; Image: 506. post office clay enumerated july 2, 1870 by john ? line 15, dwelling 191, houeshold 183 alfred patten, age 59, white male, blacksmith, b. kentucky mahaley, age 60, white female, keeping house, b. kentucky, cannot read or write sarah a., age 18, white female, at home, b. kentucky, cannot read or write Webster County was formed from Henderson County, Hopkins County and Union County in 1860 http://www.rootsweb.com/~kywebste/towns.htm kentucky archives http://www.kdla.ky.gov/ this may be an index of marriage records that might contain the patton marriages http://kdla.kyvl.org/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First i searched for marriage and union (the county) and see that there are marriage books available. you might review these books by interlibrary loan: P Families PATTON Descendants of James and Florence (Graham) Patton of Floyd County, KY, 4th ed Agricola, David V. M.D. P Families PATTON Pattons, a Pioneer Family in Kentucky and Their Descendants P Families PATTON Peddler Comes to Bucks County Alfred B. Patton http://www.fiskelibrary.org/ShelfList/PPP.htm possible website: http://my.stratos.net/~dvagricola he wrote some books on the patton family. http://my.stratos.net/~dvagricola/ one researcher says that mahala's name was mahala polly watson b. 1810 KY, that williams was a married name. also says 1860 KY census shows alfred's birthdate as 1808 KY http://www.rootsweb.com worldconnect FROM: Dorothy Wear on DATE-Sep 27, 2007 6:41:20 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Pat: I found some information for the brickwall subject: Child # 3: Mary Patton/Patten, married Benj. Pullum married first to Mary in Nov., 1849, in Union Co., KY. She died March 25, 1851, no children listed. Benj. was an ordained minister in the Primitive Baptish Church and was a Democrat. Not much on the wife's family in the Birographical Sketches in History of Kentucky, Illustrated, Edition 2. Ref: Webster Co, Ky, page1046. FROM: PatB on DATE-Sep 21, 2007 13:18:19 GMT-DATE MESSAGE: Just checking to see if this new brickwall posted as it should. Looks good to me. I've changed a few settings on the administrator's board and hope this will be the solution as to why the messages don't stay there. We'll find out Thursday evening. See you then. FROM: Nancy & Pat on DATE-Sep 21, 2007 13:16:29 GMT-DATE EMAIL: patbauer@pacifier.com MESSAGE: Nancy Elder Petersen and Patricia McKee Bauer, along with several regular visitors, will be staffing the GenChat room beginning about 6:45 p.m. Thursday evening. We close the door about 9:00 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. We have lots of visitors who will give you a willing helping hand with your genealogy brick walls. You can enter questions or answers at any time but we hope you will be able to join us when we are open for discussions. BRICKWALL: This week's puzzle is from Linda Patton: "Alfred Patton: b. about 1802 Kentucky; d. after 1870. Married 1st 1828 Union Co., KY to Sarah Davis: b. 1812 NC, d. bef. 1840 Union Co., KY, daughter of Robert Davis & Sarah Pullam (Pullum) Children: 1. John Mitchel Patton, my great great grandfather – he later moved into Fayette Co., Illinois, into Kansas, and ended up in Ingalls, Oklahoma 2. Elizabeth, 1830-1855; married William Hatley, two children – John & Polly Hatley 3. Mary, 1832-1851; married Benjamin Pullum, find no record of children, she was married in about November 1849 and died in March 1851, so possibly she died after giving birth… 4. Jane, 1833 - ???; married William Wilson, have not been able to locate them. Married 2nd in 1858 Union Co., KY to Mahala Fell Williams, it is possible they had one daughter, Sarah (Sally) Patton, and I've not searched for her yet. I have Alfred in the following census records: 1830, 1840, 1850 Union County, Kentucky 1860, 1870 Webster County, Kentucky It is possible he lived in the same spot all those years as Webster County was formed from part of Union County. One of the gals on the Webster County list looked in the published cemetery records and the probate index and found nothing on either Alfred or Mahala….I have some tax records but it has been a long time since I reviewed those…" Please feel free to come into GenChat anytime and post a query. The visitors love to have a challenge and welcome your "brickwall" problems. If you don't send us something, you'll continue working on our little problems! Please click on the "log-out" button (lower right) before you leave. Meanwhile, you can see our past transcripts by clicking below and following the links to the postings. Past transcripts:: http://www.rootsweb.com/~waccgs/p3424.htm